Author Topic: Wasting Disease  (Read 9731 times)

Offline redemption99

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2009, 11:16:17 AM »
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wasting disease only targets good cards..so i hope your talking about a converted EC  ;D
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Offline ejberkenpas22

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2009, 11:19:00 AM »
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does it? ......after further review you are correct! Ok, well then yes a converted EC...like lets say Naaman and Naamans Chariot and Horses. Thanks for the correction!
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2009, 11:20:50 AM »
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There are plenty of "Play Next" enhancements that are good, including Words of Encouragement and Reach of Desperation. Angel's Sword is also specifically a weapon-class enhancement.
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Offline ejberkenpas22

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2009, 11:22:35 AM »
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right well we needed a weapon class enhancement for an example because that sticks with a hero...so Wasting Disease will target that hero now. Does Face of death discard an angel holding angels sword or not?
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Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2009, 12:27:37 PM »
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Why should PwD NOT be a disease? Not only does it have disease in the name, but it targets heroes for decrease. Diseases most often have decrease abilities. I do not see why PwD should be considered anything other than a disease.

I created a large discussion 2 years ago about this when the entries in the REG for Disease/Poison were worded much differently than they are today.  There were several things written in the REG at the time that proved my point that PwD did not fit the definition.  Subsequently, the REG was updated to make PwD fit the definition better.  I somehow missed the fact that Wasting Disease and Palsy were added to the list.  Diseases were never anything that did not decrease the abilities of cards in the past.  Therefore, I do not know why the definition of disease was changed to simply allow a card that has "disease" in the name to be treated as such (Wasting Disease).  I don't think a card title should make a card without a disease ability be classified the same as a card with a disease ability.

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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2009, 12:29:07 PM »
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It was changed because the overwhelming majority thought that a card with disease in the title that affected heroes should be a disease. The discussion has surely been purged by now.

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2009, 12:33:11 PM »
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It was changed because the overwhelming majority thought that a card with disease in the title that affected heroes should be a disease. The discussion has surely been purged by now.

I know that.  It is still not a valid reason. 

I did find this in the REG.

Quote
A poison or disease is a special ability that adds an ability to the card it targets. The gained ability is permanent, ongoing, and negative (from the perspective of the card targetted).

Wasting Disease and Plagued with Diseases are both temporary, not permament.  They only take effect when the respective curses are active, compared to every other card with a disease ability that is actually permanent.

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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2009, 12:45:05 PM »
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Regardless of the "permanent" clause... PWD still decreases heroes AND has disease in the title. I think the argument for PwD being a disease is stronger than the your current argument.

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2009, 12:50:35 PM »
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Regardless of the "permanent" clause... PWD still decreases heroes AND has disease in the title. I think the argument for PwD being a disease is stronger than the your current argument.

I specifically said they made changes after my initial argument two years ago, so therefore it would be logical that there is a stronger argument now for PwD being a disease...

But you can't just throw out a clause in the REG like the permanent clause.  Thankfully I know the disease section of the REG is redone and I read it at nationals.  Therefore there is no real reason to discuss diseases until it releases.

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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2009, 01:00:09 PM »
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I'll be highly disapointed if PwD is taken out of the disease category when the REG is updated. Wasting disease I wouldnt mind as much, but PwD should rightfully be in there...  :-\

Offline Smokey

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2009, 01:12:48 PM »
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I'll be highly disapointed if PwD is taken out of the disease category when the REG is updated. Wasting disease I wouldnt mind as much, but PwD should rightfully be in there...  :-\

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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2009, 02:08:11 PM »
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i agree with lambo
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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2009, 02:29:36 AM »
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I completely agree with Lambo (especially since it will hurt the Nuke deck that I'm trying to perfect).

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2009, 03:01:40 AM »
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Hey,

Face of Death refers to "diseased heroes."  A "diseased hero" is a hero that has been targeted by a disease ability.  A "diseased hero" is not a hero that has been targeted by an ability on a disease card.  Wasting Disease has a prevent ability.  Plagued with Disease has a decrease ability.  Neither of them have a disease ability so neither of them create any diseased heroes.

So the REG lists Plagued with Disease and Wasting Disease as diseases, great.  Have fun discarding them with Brass Serpent.  It doesn't mean they work with your Face of Death combo.

Tschow,

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Offline STAMP

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2009, 11:42:43 AM »
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Leprosy
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Selected Hero decreases 0/2 per turn. If Hero reaches */0 or less, discard Hero. Then Leprosy is placed on another hero in that territory and continues. • Play As: Selected Hero decreases 0/2 per turn. If Hero reaches */0 or less, discard Hero. If discarded, place Leprosy on another Hero in that territory. Disease is ongoing. • Identifiers: OT, Disease • Verse: II Kings 5:27 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Common)


It appears Leprosy also has a decrease ability, but no disease ability.  I think we can safely say that Faces of Death is a useless card.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2009, 01:36:36 PM »
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Hey,

Face of Death refers to "diseased heroes."  A "diseased hero" is a hero that has been targeted by a disease ability.  A "diseased hero" is not a hero that has been targeted by an ability on a disease card.  Wasting Disease has a prevent ability.  Plagued with Disease has a decrease ability.  Neither of them have a disease ability so neither of them create any diseased heroes.

So the REG lists Plagued with Disease and Wasting Disease as diseases, great.  Have fun discarding them with Brass Serpent.  It doesn't mean they work with your Face of Death combo.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

That quote is bogus. What is a "disease ability" then? ALL the decrease cards listed as diseases are decreases, not "diseases." Only four disease cards even SAY the word disease in their special ability.

Im going to call shenanigans on that quote. It needs to change, because it makes no sense at all. I target you with a disease card, you should be diseased. Period.

Offline SirNobody

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2009, 02:51:40 PM »
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Hey,

What is a "disease ability" then?

From the new REG:

"A poison ability makes one or more characters 'poisoned.'"

"A poison ability is always followed by or paired with another ability that is not a poison ability but rather is a permanent ongoing ability.  The ability that follows or is paired with the poison ability is treated as the effect of the poison."

"A disease functions exactly the same as a poison with the one exception that it makes the character 'diseased' rather than 'poisoned.'"

Quote
I target you with a disease card, you should be diseased. Period.

Cards don't have targets, abilities do.  It's not the "disease card" that targets you it's the "disease ability."

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2009, 03:24:27 PM »
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Say what?

"A poison ability is always followed by or paired with another ability that is not a poison ability but rather is a permanent ongoing ability. The ability that follows or is paired with the poison ability is treated as the effect of the poison."

Care to explain this part...? That is just plain confusing...

Only four cards in the game make heros diseased?

It's not the "disease card" that targets you it's the "disease ability."

I find that to be stupid. I have a card classified as a disease, why is its ability not considered a disease ability? Does a card that protects from evil cards not protect from CM, because it doesn't say "Treat as an evil card"? How can I protect myself from your card, when cards dont target?

I seriously think something needs to be fixed here.

Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2009, 03:39:40 PM »
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I agree with Lambo, not only does the ruling not make sense, the sentences themselves do not make sense.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2009, 03:47:42 PM »
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The "disease" classification (noun) is simply a vehicle for SAs that target diseases. A hero that is "diseased" (adjective) means that a "disease ability" (as defined by the REG/rulebook) has been applied to them. Since the title is the only thing that earns Wasting Disease the classification of disease, it is no more a "disease ability" than Captured Ark is a "capture ability," Place of Temptation is a "place ability," or "Drawn Out" is a "draw ability."
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Offline Colin Michael

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2009, 03:50:22 PM »
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The "disease" classification (noun) is simply a vehicle for SAs that target diseases. A hero that is "diseased" (adjective) means that a "disease ability" (as defined by the REG/rulebook) has been applied to them. Since the title is the only thing that earns Wasting Disease the classification of disease, it is no more a "disease ability" than Captured Ark is a "capture ability," Place of Temptation is a "place ability," or "Drawn Out" is a "draw ability."
Well, then, I vote the REG should not be worded like the Tractatus- Philosophicus Logicus.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2009, 03:53:02 PM »
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Well, then, I vote the REG should not be worded like the Tractatus- Philosophicus Logicus.

I would agree if I had any idea what that was or if I had time to look it up.

But I don't and I won't, so I can't.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #47 on: August 16, 2009, 03:53:26 PM »
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Now those examples are pushing it a little...

Seriously though, I'm not here to debate if WD is a disease. It says currently in the REG that it is a disease, so I want to know what heroes become diseased.

Also,

"A hero that is "diseased" (adjective) means that an ability has been applied to them."

What ability? The ability of a card that has been labled a disease? I still want to hear a serious reason (other than that new REG quote which makes 0.4% sense) for why the ability of a disease card is not a disease ability?

Well, then, I vote the REG should not be worded like the Tractatus- Philosophicus Logicus.

Amen. So many new rulings get overly complicated for no reason.

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2009, 03:58:32 PM »
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Now those examples are pushing it a little...

I would argue that you are pushing it a little...  ;)

What ability? The ability of a card that has been labled a disease? I still want to hear a serious reason (other than that new REG quote which makes 0.4% sense) for why the ability of a disease card is not a disease ability?

I would actually just go by the definition in the rulebook (p.43):

Disease is a special ability that is similar to a poison in that it weakens or restrains a character over a number of turns.

Wasting Disease does not weaken or restrain a hero since the hero with the ability being targeted can still enter battle at full strength.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Wasting Disease
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2009, 04:00:18 PM »
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Wasting Disease restrains their special abilities, does it not?

 


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