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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Deck Metrics on March 17, 2011, 09:51:04 PM

Title: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 17, 2011, 09:51:04 PM
Would Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi if it were the only site in opponent's territory? Can elders reply please.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: browarod on March 17, 2011, 09:55:58 PM
If CP said "opponent" I'd say yes, but since it says "opponent's cards" I'm pretty sure it protects itself from Wastelands since Wastey is an opponent's card, even if the owner of CP would be doing the shuffling.

INE, though.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Josh on March 17, 2011, 10:01:24 PM
CP is protected from all abilities on opponent's cards.  So no, Wastelands doesn't work if CP isn't negated. 
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: SomeKittens on March 17, 2011, 10:01:37 PM
I agree with browarod.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 17, 2011, 10:38:10 PM
Wastelands (FF)
Type: Curse • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Selected opponent must place a Site from his territory beneath deck. May be used twice per game. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Deuteronomy 29:23 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers booster packs (None)
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 17, 2011, 10:39:12 PM
Caesarea Philippi (Di)
Type: Site • Brigade: Red • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect N.T. human Evil Characters in your territory from capture and discard abilities on opponents' cards. Protect N.T. Sites in your territory from opponents' cards. • Identifiers: Jew • Verse: Matthew 16:13 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()
See also:
•      Protect
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 17, 2011, 10:42:38 PM
Wastelands targets the opponent, it makes them shuffle their own site. I just don't see why. It me me it's logical that it would work or at least should work.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: RTSmaniac on March 17, 2011, 11:20:39 PM
CP is protected from all abilities on opponent's cards.  So no, Wastelands doesn't work if CP isn't negated. 

I understand your insight, but im going to agree with Jim as well. Elders, what say ye?
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Professoralstad on March 17, 2011, 11:38:55 PM
CP is protected from all abilities on opponent's cards.  So no, Wastelands doesn't work if CP isn't negated. 

I understand your insight, but im going to agree with Jim as well. Elders, what say ye?

jmhartz is correct.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Isildur on March 17, 2011, 11:58:32 PM
While this topic is up could I stack characters on my opponents sites with "site stacking" cards if they are using California Pizza Kitchen? (C.P)
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: SomeKittens on March 18, 2011, 01:22:23 AM
I don't think so.  You couldn't target them with the stack ability.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 18, 2011, 11:07:43 AM
Well then.....Caesarea Philippi is OP'ED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   since it protects itself.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: SomeKittens on March 18, 2011, 11:34:16 AM
Well then.....Caesarea Philippi is OP'ED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   since it protects itself.
Welcome to the wonderful world of Disciples-era Redemption.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Josh on March 18, 2011, 01:01:42 PM
Well then.....Caesarea Philippi is OP'ED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   since it protects itself.
OP territory protection is better than OP territory destruction/preblock ignore, IMHO.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: SirNobody on March 18, 2011, 01:29:43 PM
Hey,

This seems like a good place to clarify "opponent must."  Abilities that say your opponent has to do something used to mean that the opponent performed the action.  It no longer means that.  It now means that the opponent chooses the target(s).  The player that played the card still carries out the effect, the opponent just gets to choose what it's carried out on.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Korunks on March 18, 2011, 01:34:32 PM
Well then that seems inconsistent with my forcing my opponent to draw not being stopped by Jerusalem Tower.  I am making them chose the only target for their draw, but I am still the source of the drawing.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: SirNobody on March 18, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Hey,

Well then that seems inconsistent with my forcing my opponent to draw not being stopped by Jerusalem Tower.  I am making them chose the only target for their draw, but I am still the source of the drawing.

In the discussion amongst playtesters we all agreed that Jerusalem Tower shouldn't stop forced drawing, but we had two different explanations for why.  But since the explanation didn't make a difference to the end result we didn't decide which explanation to officially go with (to my knowledge).  Can you point me to the announcement about forced draw and JT?  I don't think I've read it and it might shed some light on how to explain it.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on March 18, 2011, 04:51:22 PM
Would Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi if it were the only site in opponent's territory?

Didn't I already answer that question?   ;)
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 18, 2011, 05:18:20 PM
Hey,

Well then that seems inconsistent with my forcing my opponent to draw not being stopped by Jerusalem Tower.  I am making them chose the only target for their draw, but I am still the source of the drawing.

In the discussion amongst playtesters we all agreed that Jerusalem Tower shouldn't stop forced drawing, but we had two different explanations for why.  But since the explanation didn't make a difference to the end result we didn't decide which explanation to officially go with (to my knowledge).  Can you point me to the announcement about forced draw and JT?  I don't think I've read it and it might shed some light on how to explain it.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
You seem to be out of the loop or not recalling on a lot of stuff recently. The reason given was that drawing is not a remove from deck ability, and if you had different thoughts they weren't evidenced on the public thread. The search function works just as well for you as it does for me, and I don't keep a catalog of completed discussions.
Title: Re: Wastelands shuffle Caesarea Philippi?
Post by: Deck Metrics on March 19, 2011, 08:06:32 PM
That helps Tim, thanks
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