Author Topic: Warriors spear - long day and obedience of Noah (Read 6547 times)

crustpope · « **on:** April 21, 2009, 10:29:18 AM »

Ok Here is the scenario

My opponent comes in with jake and plays obedience of noah to choose their own Red dragon to block

Red dragon is immune to human heroes so he has initiative all day because I have no crimson enhancements to play on red dragon.

Jake plays Coat of many colors, and then plays warriors spear to discard the top card of my deck

Warrior's Spear
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Red • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Discard the top card of opponent's deck. If it is a Lost Soul, put it in play instead and discard this card after battle. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: I Chronicles 12:24

Then he plays the long day and stillness to pull them all back from battle and begin a new rescue attempt.

OK my question is this. Is the new battle a totally different battle? in other words can Red dragon block for the second time? ( I am pretty sure that this has been ruled in the affirmative and red dragon can enter battle a second time.)

My next question is this. If one fo those cards that warrior spear discards is a lost soul, does warrirors spear go to the discard pile after stillness is played inspite of stillensses special ability?

Stillness
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Hero may withdraw from battle unharmed. All enhancement cards played may be returned to the player's hand except this one. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 46:10

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2009, 10:56:00 AM »

Yes, red dragon can block again and again.

I'm not sure on Warrior's Spear. I would guess it is still discarded, but IDK for sure.

crustpope · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2009, 11:47:34 AM »

I had someone pull this in a type two deck and with all the repetition I ended up d/c my whole deck. But now that I think about it, all his copies of Warrior spear should have been discarded when I revealed LS's

Because I dont think you can have it both ways. If it is the same battle, then you can keep the warriors spears until the end of battle, but you cannot bring red dragon back into the same battle.

if it is a different battle then I think you lose x number of warriors spears (x being the number of LS's revealed during the d/c ability) before you begin the next battle with obedience of noah.

but wait. What if it was the same battle? and he just banded in multiple heroes so that he continued the battle indefinitely ( or atleast until his heroes ran out) that would let him keep his copies of Warriors spears I think because the battle would keep on going.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:01:38 PM »

i would think spear would return to hand due to stillness ability and reset in hand when the discard ability activates and tries to target spear.

Bryon · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:12:35 PM »

RTS is correct for the reasons he gave. But Jacob can't enter battle again that turn, right? He withdrew, so he is done for the turn, right?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:13:06 PM »

that is a good point, it would reset in hand...

*Opens RTS and madly starts building a d/c deck*

Quote from: Bryon on April 21, 2009, 12:12:35 PM

RTS is correct for the reasons he gave. But Jacob can't enter battle again that turn, right? He withdrew, so he is done for the turn, right?

I thought with long day you could use the same hero....

Bryon · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:16:04 PM »

I've ruled that if a hero withdraws from battle, he can't reenter battle that turn.

I'm pretty sure that is correct, but it MIGHT be that the hero just can't reenter the same battle.

If there is not a consensus in how this is played, I vote for not being able to reenter battle the same turn. Then the combos are limited to the number of heroes you have at a given time. Unlimited loops are not good for the game.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:23:30 PM »

Quote

Unlimited loops are not good for the game.

But they are fun.....

that, if it isn't, it should be once per turn...

Sean · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2009, 12:39:33 PM »

http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/gloss_withdraw.htm

Quote from: REG

The withdraw special ability either allows a character to exit battle unharmed or it forces an opposing character to leave the battle unharmed. Once a character withdraws from battle, the character may not reenter battle during the same turn.

Bryon · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2009, 01:10:58 PM »

Yay! I'm relieved I've been ruling it correctly.

So the combo lasts until you run out of characters that can choose the Red Dragon.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:04:44 PM »

I'd just get around it by banding Seraphim to Jacob and using In the Clouds, which resets the characters in hand.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2009, 04:29:35 PM »

Would that work? It would still be the same character trying to enter battle the next time.

Gabe · « **Reply #12 on:** April 22, 2009, 08:27:24 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 21, 2009, 04:04:44 PM

I'd just get around it by banding Seraphim to Jacob and using In the Clouds, which resets the characters in hand.

I don't think that would work for the same reason that I can't use Unknown Nation to add a second Simon the Magician to battle after you play AotL on the first Simon the Magician I block with. Simon has been in battle this turn. It doesn't matter where the card comes from. If a character has been in battle this turn, they've been in battle this turn.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 22, 2009, 08:44:43 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on April 21, 2009, 01:10:58 PM

Yay! I'm relieved I've been ruling it correctly.

Not so quick there, Sparky.

Quote from: The REG Instant Abilities -> Withdraw from Battle -> Special Conditions

If a character is forced to withdraw (e.g., Darkness (Warriors)) or withdraws from a battle voluntarily (e.g., Highway), it may not re-enter the current battle (see Withdraw in the glossary of the rulebook [p. 54]). Moreover, the character may enter on a new battle on the same turn (e.g., The Long Day).

Emphasis mine.

crustpope · « **Reply #14 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:17:47 AM »

and that is the never ending loop I hope to exploit (given the right combo of cards of course)

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #15 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:48:24 AM »

Um, am I overlooking something obvious???

Stillness
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Hero may withdraw from battle unharmed. All enhancement cards played may be returned to the player's hand except this one. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 46:10

How do you get Stillness back for an infinite loop?

crustpope · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:52:01 AM »

I could tell you but then I would have to kill you

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2009, 09:53:13 AM »

I hate answers like that...

But am I right? With the cards talked about in the thread, it wouldn't be recurring right?

Arch Angel · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:12:46 AM »

The incredible blue recurrence card, Jubilee. It's from a starter deck, too, I believe.

crustpope · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:19:56 AM »

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on April 22, 2009, 10:12:46 AM

The incredible blue recurrence card, Jubilee. It's from a starter deck, too, I believe.

bingo. but now you gotta pass on to the next life...what do you want on your tombstone?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:25:01 AM »

Here lies Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend, who gave up his life to teach another how to use a starter deck card.

TimMierz · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:30:10 AM »

Man, he makes my last name just look pathetic. He's got more than twice as many letters. I'm jealous.

Bryon · « **Reply #22 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:36:40 AM »

So the REG contradicts itself? Sean's quote says you CAN'T reenter battle on the same turn, and MJB's quote says you may?

One of those needs to be fixed. I vote for fixing MJB's quote.

The Schaef · « **Reply #23 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:39:22 AM »

Agreed. "Moreover" is a statement of addition, which suggests that the critical word "not" was accidentally left off that last section.

crustpope · « **Reply #24 on:** April 22, 2009, 10:46:11 AM »

true, but there are ways around it even if you do edit the reg to include the "not" that likely should be there.

sounds liek the powers that be need to get together and figure out whether you should fix the reg or leave it as is.

News:

Author Topic: Warriors spear - long day and obedience of Noah (Read 6547 times)

The Schaef