Check out our Event Calendar! View birthdays, holidays and upcoming tournaments!
Quote from: thestrongangel on October 13, 2009, 09:15:36 PMIf that is the case, then it needs to have a play as wording. As it currently stands, how I have laid out the abilities is how it would go.I still disagree with that. There is nothing in their current wording that gives one precedence over the other. No SA "changes" another SA to something different (like you suggested with WS changing the "discard" into a "put beneath deck"), though some change what happens after. They both still have the exact same trigger.
If that is the case, then it needs to have a play as wording. As it currently stands, how I have laid out the abilities is how it would go.
I know this is not true, because of Zaccheus's ability. Originally it never was allowed to put a fortress in play, and yet its play as ability states that the fortress goes into play.Also, cards like Enoch, which were originally affected by such things as Holy of Holies, are now not affected by them. So yes, a play as wording does change how a card is used.
Hey,Quote from: thestrongangel on October 13, 2009, 09:55:31 PMI know this is not true, because of Zaccheus's ability. Originally it never was allowed to put a fortress in play, and yet its play as ability states that the fortress goes into play.Also, cards like Enoch, which were originally affected by such things as Holy of Holies, are now not affected by them. So yes, a play as wording does change how a card is used.Zaccheus' play as is an error. Last I checked, Holy of Holies still affects Enoch.Tschow,Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
Enoch may be removed from the game, but is protected from being discarded.
Zaccheus's play as cannot be an error, as the default condition for any card that does not specify a destination is "in play".Enoch's play as reads:QuoteEnoch may be removed from the game, but is protected from being discarded.Holy of Holies prevents the words interrupt, prevent and negate, not protect.
A discard ability discards, there is no other outcome. Moving a card that was discarded is different than "changing the outcome" of the discard.Anyways, it doesn't really matter because Tartaros does the same type of thing as WS, just with a different destination. As such, when you have conflicting abilities, whichever was in play first wins.
A discard ability discards, there is no other outcome. Moving a card that was discarded is different than "changing the outcome" of the discard.
No arguement that a discard ability discards, however, on the completion of the effect, the discard effect is not discarding the Wandering spirit, it is placing it beneath draw pile instead of discarding it. Tartaros says you place a demon you discarded on it. They are two seperate effects.
Quote from: thestrongangel on October 13, 2009, 10:18:54 PMNo arguement that a discard ability discards, however, on the completion of the effect, the discard effect is not discarding the Wandering spirit, it is placing it beneath draw pile instead of discarding it. Tartaros says you place a demon you discarded on it. They are two seperate effects.Yes, they are two separate abilities. However, they share the same trigger: a discarded demon. Regardless of what each individual one does once the trigger is pulled, they both do something to the card that triggered them, thus they both can't complete on the same trigger card. Neither card by itself has initiative (lol) over the other, which is why we default to the rule I've said at least half a dozen times now.WS completes if WS was out first, and Tartaros completes if Tartaros was out first. End of story.
It's whos SA was active first, not who was in play first correct?
thestrongangel, careful. You're against people who KNOW what they're talking about.
The wording of the effect on Wandering Spirit, and implies working in a different manner. What it has is not a triggered ability, but a replacement ability. The difference is Tartaros says if A happens, then do B. Wandering Spirit says that if A is going to happen, instead of A happening, B happens.
Quote from: SirNobody on October 13, 2009, 10:06:45 PMHey,Quote from: thestrongangel on October 13, 2009, 09:55:31 PMI know this is not true, because of Zaccheus's ability. Originally it never was allowed to put a fortress in play, and yet its play as ability states that the fortress goes into play.Also, cards like Enoch, which were originally affected by such things as Holy of Holies, are now not affected by them. So yes, a play as wording does change how a card is used.Zaccheus' play as is an error. Last I checked, Holy of Holies still affects Enoch.Tschow,Tim "Sir Nobody" MalyZaccheus's play as cannot be an error, as the default condition for any card that does not specify a destination is "in play".Enoch's play as reads:QuoteEnoch may be removed from the game, but is protected from being discarded.Holy of Holies prevents the words interrupt, prevent and negate, not protect.
The playtesters already posted that Tartaros should be treated as an "instead" ability. Wandering Spirit doesn't say "if A is going to happen" at all, just the "instead of A happening, B happens."Both, therefore, say, "If A happens, do B." As Bryon said, that results in Tartaros winning out.
