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Author Topic: Broken Cisterns  (Read 3649 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

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Broken Cisterns
« on: September 08, 2009, 06:08:42 PM »
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Quick question here, kinda looking for a quick answer...

My opponent put Weakness and Broken Cisterns in my territory. I have a few heroes in said territory. If I RA with one of those heroes, are they decreased in battle? Or, beings they are no longer in my territory are they back to normal?

If the answer is they are decreased in battle, can I RA with a hero from my hand without putting it in my territory? :P

Thanks *i'll post abilities in a second*
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2009, 06:09:54 PM »
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Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place in an opponent's territory. Negate draw abilities used by that player. All Heroes in that territory are decreased by 0/X. • Attributes: X = number of good brigades in this territory • Identifiers: OT, X = number of good brigades in this territory • Verse: Jeremiah 2:13 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 15)

Weakness doesn't really matter, but...

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place this card in a player's territory. If that player controls a Hero in battle that has decreased toughness, the blocker has initiative to play the first enhancement in battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Lamentations 1:6 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Rare)
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Offline Cameron the Conqueror

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2009, 06:13:17 PM »
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Yes, you can RA (and band) directly from hand.

If you RA, the hero is not decreased.  Only heroes in territory are decreased.  Broken Cisterns is dynamic and updates instantly.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2009, 06:16:10 PM »
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I could see it that way. I could also see it as a one-time decrease of characters in territory at the time the card is played. PTB weigh in plz.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2009, 06:25:29 PM »
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Though I dont feel strongly either way, I would rule it's dynamic--if a player had 2 good brigades and then put another in play, the decrease would change from 0/2 to 0/3.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2009, 06:30:18 PM »
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Well this is a near-useless card then. I had thought the Weakness theme of Brown was established by the time Cisterns came out. Was this just a playtesting screwup?
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2009, 06:48:52 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2009, 06:30:18 PM
Well this is a near-useless card then.
Yeah, totally useless. All it does is stop speed.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2009, 06:50:09 PM »
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I believe the "in that territory" part is referring to "who" is targeted, not "when" they are targeted. If a player attacks from hand, the Hero is not affected by Broken Cisterns, but as soon as the Hero enters the territory, then it is affected from that point forward.
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Fortress Alstad
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 07:00:55 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on September 08, 2009, 06:50:09 PM
I believe the "in that territory" part is referring to "who" is targeted, not "when" they are targeted. If a player attacks from hand, the Hero is not affected by Broken Cisterns, but as soon as the Hero enters the territory, then it is affected from that point forward.
That makes sense. I wasn't really thinking (and apparently Polarius wasn't either :P), but after rereading Broken Cisterns I think I understand it. So, once decreased they remain decreased even when put into battle because the territory is who and not when.

Related question: He has Broken Cisterns in my territory, I have one hero in said territory (and no other good brigades). I attack with that hero, beings I no longer have a good brigade in my territory, the hero in battle is not decreased... correct?
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 07:07:41 PM »
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so the weakness/broken cisterns combo would work then?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2009, 09:11:49 PM »
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Hey,

Broken Cisterns affects all characters in the territory while they are in the territory.  If a new character enters the territory it is affected, if a character leaves the territory it ceases to be affected.  So if a character leaves the territory and enters battle, while in battle it is not decreased, so Broken Cisterns will never trigger weakness.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2009, 09:12:34 PM »
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That's running quite contrary to what's been said before, with nothing but your fiat backing it up.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2009, 09:16:20 PM »
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Does he really drive a Fiat? I had envisioned him as a DeLorean kind of guy.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2009, 09:23:55 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on September 08, 2009, 09:11:49 PM
Broken Cisterns affects all characters in the territory while they are in the territory.  If a new character enters the territory it is affected, if a character leaves the territory it ceases to be affected.  So if a character leaves the territory and enters battle, while in battle it is not decreased, so Broken Cisterns will never trigger weakness.
Correct.  Broken Cisterns was designed to do two things: kill off little initiatitve guys in territory, and stop speed.  It is not useless in a convert deck.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2009, 09:27:47 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on September 08, 2009, 09:16:20 PM
Does he really drive a Fiat? I had envisioned him as a DeLorean kind of guy.

I drive a '93 cavalier named Jarvis.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 08, 2009, 09:12:34 PM
That's running quite contrary to what's been said before, with nothing but your fiat backing it up.

Consider how Crown of Thorns is played.  Isn't what I said consistent with how you would treat Crown of Thorns?  What was said before that my comments are contrary to?  I do now notice that increase/decrease needs better definition than it has now.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2009, 09:31:34 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on September 08, 2009, 06:50:09 PM
I believe the "in that territory" part is referring to "who" is targeted, not "when" they are targeted. If a player attacks from hand, the Hero is not affected by Broken Cisterns, but as soon as the Hero enters the territory, then it is affected from that point forward.
This is what it is contrary to. "In territory" can just as easily be referring to the characters of that player as to the territory itself.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2009, 09:47:12 PM »
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any official ruling on this?
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Offline crustpope

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Re: Broken Cisterns
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2009, 11:59:50 PM »
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Quote from: Master KChief on September 25, 2009, 09:47:12 PM
any official ruling on this?

Bryon weighed in, I would consider that pretty official unless an overwhelming group of playtesters force him to flee from his position.
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