Author Topic: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?  (Read 2033 times)

Offline STAMP

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If I place an enhancement on a character, and that character is converted, does the enhancement convert similar to a weapon-class enhancement?

Quote from: Instant Abilities > Convert > Default Conditions
Default Conditions
•      Special abilities on a converted character continue to exist. However, the special abilities of a converted character have no effect if they are not in the general nature of the converted character.  For example, a converted Evil Character becomes a Hero and can no longer band to an “Evil” Character.

•      Weapon-class enhancements stay with a converted character; the special ability continues to function if it does not conflict with the nature of the converted character (see Weapon-class Enhancements in the rulebook [p. 35].

•      If a Hero is converted to an Evil Character, it’s special ability does not work.  If that Evil Character is later converted back to a Hero, it’s special ability works again.

•      If an Evil Character is converted to a Hero, it’s special ability works as long as it cannot negatively effect a does not harm Heroes in play or set-aside.  The only exception is that the converted Evil Character may target a Hero for banding (e.g., if Potiphar and Potiphar's Wife were both converted to Heroes, Potiphar's special ability to band to Potiphar's Wife can still work)(e.g., the special ability of Otho does not work as a Hero because it would be discarding himself, a Hero). Game rules are still operative (e.g., Heroes may not use evil enhancements or band to Evil Characters).
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2010, 02:29:52 PM »
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Hey,

Nope.  You just end up with an evil enhancement on a hero (or a good enhancement on an evil character).  In some cases the enhancement still works (Herod's Treachery can be discarded from a converted Herod and still work), in some cases the enhancement won't work anymore (an enhancement placed by Agur would fizzle and be discarded if the character it was placed on entered battle after being converted).

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline STAMP

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2010, 04:08:57 PM »
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Where is this specified in the rulebook and/or REG?  I did a search and cannot find anything.  I actually have some other examples, too.

What if I convert an EC to green that has Sowing the Seed placed on it prior to it reaching */0 or less?

What if I use Gold Shield to change the brigade of a hero that has a placed enhancement of the same brigade on it?

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Offline Bryon

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2010, 04:28:59 PM »
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What if I convert an EC to green that has Sowing the Seed placed on it prior to it reaching */0 or less?
It does not activate.  Everything after the "place" ability on the placed enhancement explains what to do with the placed card.  It only activates if the ability that placed the card says it does.  StS also does not decrease the hero, since StS says EC decreases, not "hero decreases."  So, it just stays there doing nothing.

What if I use Gold Shield to change the brigade of a hero that has a placed enhancement of the same brigade on it?
Is it placed to give ongoing effect, or placed to activate later?  If it is placed to give an ongoing effect, then it stays and continues to give effect.  If it is placed to activate later (I prefer to call those "preloaded"), then that enhancement won't be able to give its effect unless there is a hero in battle that matches that hero's brigade.

Offline STAMP

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2010, 04:33:07 PM »
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What if I convert an EC to green that has Sowing the Seed placed on it prior to it reaching */0 or less?
It does not activate.  Everything after the "place" ability on the placed enhancement explains what to do with the placed card.  It only activates if the ability that placed the card says it does.  StS also does not decrease the hero, since StS says EC decreases, not "hero decreases."  So, it just stays there doing nothing.

What if I use Gold Shield to change the brigade of a hero that has a placed enhancement of the same brigade on it?
Is it placed to give ongoing effect, or placed to activate later?  If it is placed to give an ongoing effect, then it stays and continues to give effect.  If it is placed to activate later (I prefer to call those "preloaded"), then that enhancement won't be able to give its effect unless there is a hero in battle that matches that hero's brigade.

But you didn't answer my first question.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 06:11:38 PM »
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If this is not explained under "place" in the current REG, it will be in the new one.

Offline STAMP

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 06:16:21 PM »
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I searched everything related to "convert" and "place" and found nothing.

Until the new REG is released, will there be a temporary ruling that hosts should use? *



(* I'm not hosting and don't plan on entering any tournaments anytime soon, but you know some of these other guys on the boards - they come up with gnarly combos all the time.)
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Offline Bryon

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2010, 06:20:40 PM »
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Temporary ruling that hosts should use:

Everything after the "place" ability on the placed enhancement explains what to do with the placed card.  A placed enhancement activates as it enters battle ONLY if the ability that placed the card says it does.

In the 2010 set, placed enhancements have special abilities layed out a little more clearly.  Here's a sample:

"Place this card in your territory: Your hhhhhhhs cannot be ignored.  Protect hhhhhhhs in your territory from opponents' cards."  [wordz misspelled un porpoise, soas not to spoil anything]

The colon is the clue that everything after it is dependant upon the place, and lasts while the card is placed.  That is true for older cards as well (which use a period instead of a colon), but apparently it wasn't clear.  Remember the confusion about Herod's Treachery?  :)

The other questions you asked can be answered by following the rules for enhancements in battle with no one that can use them.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 12:54:42 AM by Bryon »

Offline STAMP

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2010, 06:27:53 PM »
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Okay, boys (and girls), there you have it.  Print it for your records.   :)
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2010, 02:50:11 PM »
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Hey,

Where is this specified in the rulebook and/or REG?  I did a search and cannot find anything.  I actually have some other examples, too.

I think it's worth noting that you cannot or do not do something unless a rule or card allows or causes it.  Weapons convert with characters because there's a rule that says they do.  There is no rule that says placed cards convert with characters they are placed on, so they don't.  There's no rule that says a card placed on a character must continue to match the character's brigade so it doesn't have to.  There is a rule that an enhancement can only activate on a character of matching brigade, so that does have to happen.

Sometimes the absence of a rule can be as significant as the presence of a rule.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline STAMP

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »
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Hey,

Where is this specified in the rulebook and/or REG?  I did a search and cannot find anything.  I actually have some other examples, too.

I think it's worth noting that you cannot or do not do something unless a rule or card allows or causes it.  Weapons convert with characters because there's a rule that says they do.  There is no rule that says placed cards convert with characters they are placed on, so they don't.  There's no rule that says a card placed on a character must continue to match the character's brigade so it doesn't have to.  There is a rule that an enhancement can only activate on a character of matching brigade, so that does have to happen.

Sometimes the absence of a rule can be as significant as the presence of a rule.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Sometimes the absence of a rule relies on precedent.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Do placed enhancements work like weapon-class during conversion?
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2010, 06:29:25 AM »
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so will this be a common printed in every brigade? like the set aside cards that protected civilizations from conversion? ex. merodach worship
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