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Author Topic: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT  (Read 1833 times)

Offline stefferweffer

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Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« on: March 01, 2011, 03:14:53 PM »
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1) Can you even use Unknown Nation against TGT if there are not already two ECs of that color in play? 

2) Or can I instead reason that the one I am searching for matches the color of one in my territory, therefore there "will be" 2 in play? (I don't think so)

3)  Or is there a third option where I can use Unknown Nation to search for an EC, but he will go to my territory instead of battle?

Thanks for your help :)
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2011, 03:17:59 PM »
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The EC can't enter battle, but you can put it in hand for use later down the line.
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2011, 05:39:20 PM »
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Quote from: SomeKittens on March 01, 2011, 03:17:59 PM
The EC can't enter battle, but you can put it in hand for use later down the line.

Unknown Nation (Pi)
Type: Curse • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 0 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: If opponent’s Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to search draw pile for a human Evil Character and add it to battle. Cannot be interrupted. • Play As: If opponent’s Hero is in battle, when holder chooses, you may discard this card to search deck for a human Evil Character and add to battle. Cannot be interrupted. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts an Idol • Verse: Deuteronomy 28:36 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Uncommon)


I'm pretty sure you can't add it to hand.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2011, 05:53:04 PM »
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I asked this earlier, and one of the Elders said you could.  Can't find it...
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2011, 05:59:24 PM »
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Exchange abilities move cards to a specific location.  The only exception to that rule is for enhancements, which can be added to hand or battle.  In the case of Unknown Nation it's battle or nothing.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 06:42:33 PM »
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That contradicts what other elders have said about exchange abilities. Probably something you should bring up on the other side so you can have all your apples in a row.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2011, 06:45:16 PM »
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I'm not sure why exchange abilities are being brought up, UN is not an exchange, it's a discard to search ability. I think it would fall well within the constraints of "do as much as you can" to search and put the character in hand if you can't add it to battle. But I'm certainly not 100%.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2011, 06:48:56 PM »
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Still a relevant question for exchange.
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2011, 06:52:49 PM »
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I agree. It is worded as an "and" statement not a "to" statement. Therefore I can search for it AND add to battle. If I can not add to to battle, I can still search, however, because it is not search TO add to battle.

With that logic however, is there any reason why I can not search for an EC during my prep phrase? Or, for that matter, why can I not search for it, be unable to add it to battle, have it go to my territory (since no location is specified, I choose territory or hand, so I pick territory) and then block with it (because I now have two ECs in territory)?

If the clauses are not dependant, I should be able to do that, and if they are, it needs a play as/errata because that's not what it says.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 06:57:03 PM by Alex_Olijar »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2011, 06:55:28 PM »
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Quote
is there any reason why I can not search for an EC during my prep phrase?

Yes...

Quote
Unknown Nation (Pi)
Type: Curse • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 0 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: If opponent’s Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to search draw pile for a human Evil Character and add it to battle. Cannot be interrupted. • Play As: If opponent’s Hero is in battle, when holder chooses, you may discard this card to search deck for a human Evil Character and add to battle. Cannot be interrupted. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts an Idol • Verse: Deuteronomy 28:36 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Uncommon)
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Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2011, 06:56:43 PM »
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Reading the complete ability has ruined an argument yet again!

I stand by the point about being able to put the EC into my territory though if I can search for it (which it seems like I should be able to).
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2011, 06:57:49 PM »
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Quote
I stand by the point about being able to put the EC into my territory though if I can search for it (which it seems like I should be able to).

I don't necessarily disagree with that...need to look at it further tho.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2011, 07:02:50 PM »
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Found my thread:
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=25215.0

Quote from: The Schaef on January 27, 2011, 04:47:47 PM
The question was whether the EC would be sent to territory instead of battle if ignored.  Polarius was correct to answer that in the negative.

If it cannot be added to battle, it defaults back to your hand.  If for some reason you are also not allowed to add cards to hand, you return the card to the draw pile.

Quote from: The Guardian on January 27, 2011, 11:32:38 PM
Sorry, I should have only quoted the part of Browarod's answer that I considered a valid point, which was:
Quote
I don't think UN can add to territory, but is there some reason it's different enough to not be able to add to hand?

As it is, I also see no reason why the EC has to join the battle if the player merely wishes to search for an EC. Unknown Nation got so crushed by Nazareth that I'm glad it is actually a bit more useful than previously thought.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2011, 08:07:11 PM »
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Quote
It is worded as an "and" statement not a "to" statement. Therefore I can search for it AND add to battle. If I can not add to to battle, I can still search, however, because it is not search TO add to battle.

I agree with Alex O on this.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 08:25:24 PM »
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Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 01, 2011, 06:56:43 PM
Reading the complete ability has ruined an argument yet again!

I stand by the point about being able to put the EC into my territory though if I can search for it (which it seems like I should be able to).

I don't think you can put the EC into your territory any more than you can put TGT in territory after searching with Salome. The default for searches is that the searched for card is put in your hand. Since you can't add it to battle, I think you would just leave it in hand, not in territory, as much as I'd love that to be the case.
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Offline stefferweffer

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 08:42:43 AM »
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So are we all agreed that I can still search, even if being pre-ignored, to add the card to my hand?  Even this is better than NOTHING, because at least (in theory) I might have two ECs in territory on the opponent's NEXT turn.

Thanks again.
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 08:44:59 AM »
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Yes.  The elders may come back with something different, but that's how you'd play it for now.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Unknown Nation with one EC in territory, versus TGT
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 09:47:49 AM »
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Quote from: stefferweffer on March 02, 2011, 08:42:43 AM
So are we all agreed that I can still search, even if being pre-ignored, to add the card to my hand?  Even this is better than NOTHING, because at least (in theory) I might have two ECs in territory on the opponent's NEXT turn.

Thanks again.

I don't see any reason why not.
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