Author Topic: Unknown Nation and Priests of Christ (Read 7138 times)

SirNobody · « **on:** June 11, 2009, 03:36:13 PM »

Hey,

I have Unknown Nation active and no Evil Characters in my territory. My opponent attacks me with Priests of Christ. I use Unknown Nation, search for Goliath and present him as a blocker. Does my opponent get to search their draw pile for a good dominant?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #1 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:47:31 PM »

No. Unknown Nation does not bring a chracter from your hand.

Post ablilities

TimMierz · « **Reply #2 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:53:44 PM »

PoC says: "This Hero is immune to demons. If opponent blocks with any Evil Characters from hand, you may search draw pile for a good Dominant and add it to hand. Cannot be negated."

UN says: "If opponent’s Hero is in battle, you may discard this card to search draw pile for a human Evil Character and add it to battle."

I guess the question is, does the searched card ever enter hand before going into battle?

I say no. I couldn't find any default conditions in the REG to support searched cards making a "pit stop" in the hand before going to their other location. In fact, all cards that say to search for cards have a destination, either printed or in a Play As (like False Peace, "Search deck for any card and put in hand.")

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #3 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:43:04 PM »

I say no also. UN never says anything about a hand, so I would say it is blocking from the deck.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:48:35 PM »

Instant Abilities > Band > Special Conditions

• Some cards indirectly band from a draw or discard pile (e.g., Ship to Cyprus); these require you to search for cards and place them in your hand prior to banding them into battle. These are considered “from your hand.”

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:54:51 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 11, 2009, 05:48:35 PM

Instant Abilities > Band > Special Conditions

• Some cards indirectly band from a draw or discard pile (e.g., Ship to Cyprus); these require you to search for cards and place them in your hand prior to banding them into battle. These are considered “from your hand.”

Nice find.

The Schaef · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2009, 06:09:03 PM »

That seems obscure and obsolete. What would be the reason that ruling should remain in place?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2009, 06:12:07 PM »

I don't necessarily agree with the REG, but I took Mierz' post as a personal challenge.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** June 12, 2009, 01:36:47 AM »

Too bad no banding is happening. So even with the obsolete REG ruling, it works as we all would think it works.

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2009, 07:08:09 AM »

It's not a band in the sense that there is not already an EC in the battle, but Unknown Nation is exactly the type of card that entry is talking about.

SirNobody · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2009, 02:22:42 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 11, 2009, 05:48:35 PM

• Some cards indirectly band from a draw or discard pile (e.g., Ship to Cyprus); these require you to search for cards and place them in your hand prior to banding them into battle. These are considered “from your hand.”

Does this apply to just banding or would it apply to other abilities as well? I can't think of any reason why we would single out banding and have search-band cards go through the players hand while not having search-play, search-place, or search-discard cards do the same. So my gut would be that this applies to all abilities and not just banding.

That is, if it applies at all.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** June 12, 2009, 03:30:37 PM »

Ultimately there will need to be discussion as to whether that quote is antiquated or still necessary. Until then, I would read this quote as implying that all search cards would have to follow the same principle. Essentially, all cards taken from the draw pile pass through the "hand." The only exception that I could see would be "reveal." Also to clarify, the card would pass through the hand of the searcher (a.k.a. holder of the search card).

Arch Angel · « **Reply #12 on:** June 12, 2009, 04:07:12 PM »

Ok so wait. If my hand is protected from discard, and I play Confusion, would the Son of God card I pick to discard stay in my hand? O_o

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2009, 07:43:59 PM »

Quote from: Arch Angel on June 12, 2009, 04:07:12 PM

Ok so wait. If my hand is protected from discard, and I play Confusion, would the Son of God card I pick to discard stay in my hand? O_o

Are there cards that just generally protect your hand, or do they protect you from "opponent's" cards?

Arch Angel · « **Reply #14 on:** June 13, 2009, 12:30:19 AM »

Arianna protects your hand from evil cards. You could possibly make a very convoluted combo to abuse this.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #15 on:** June 13, 2009, 12:34:16 AM »

Arianna and I Am Mercy protect the hand AND the deck, so you couldn't Confusion anything in the deck anyway.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2009, 12:42:13 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 12, 2009, 03:30:37 PM

the card would pass through the hand of the searcher (a.k.a. holder of the search card).

If it passes through the hand of the Searcher (AKA the one who plays Confusion) and the Searcher's hand is protected, then it doesn't matter if the deck is protected because you're discarding from your opponent's deck.

SirNobody · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2009, 12:49:38 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on June 13, 2009, 12:34:16 AM

Arianna and I Am Mercy protect the hand AND the deck, so you couldn't Confusion anything in the deck anyway.

I Am Mercy protects holder's hand and draw pile. It does not protect opponent's draw pile.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2009, 01:17:53 AM »

Neither does Arianna.

I missed something somewhere and didn't read that as the same player controlling Arianna and Confusion (with both active).

Wouldn't that also apply to searching the discard pile, so you could effectively steal your opponent's discard pile (except LS) with Murmuring? Or a portion of it with Forgotten History/Wonders Forgotten? (Using Arianna, since she protects the hand from discard and removal.)

Arch Angel · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2009, 03:54:31 AM »

If this passes then Arianna just got very very VERY broken.

sk · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2009, 07:49:35 AM »

Backtracking just a bit:

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 11, 2009, 05:48:35 PM

Instant Abilities > Band > Special Conditions
• Some cards indirectly band from a draw or discard pile (e.g., Ship to Cyprus); these require you to search for cards and place them in your hand prior to banding them into battle. These are considered “from your hand.”

I'm pretty sure this quote is in error/outdated. Otherwise, the wording on Answer to Prayer seems badly worded:

Quote

Answer to Prayer
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 4 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search your deck for a good Genesis card and add it to hand or battle. Cannot be negated if used by a Genesis Hero. • Identifiers: OT, Spiritual Gift • Verse: Genesis 24:15 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 4)

They changed the wording from the previously popular "Search for a card and add to hand. You may play next enhancement" type wording, which could have been more in line with the REG quote. Just doesn't seem accurate anymore.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #21 on:** June 13, 2009, 09:18:12 AM »

Quote from: sk on June 13, 2009, 07:49:35 AM

They changed the wording from the previously popular "Search for a card and add to hand. You may play next enhancement" type wording, which could have been more in line with the REG quote. Just doesn't seem accurate anymore.

"Search for a card and add to hand. You may play the next enhancement" wouldn't do the same thing. Answer to Prayer currently lets you add a character to battle.

In this case, you could also play a different enhancement. (IE: Play Answer to Prayer, search for Obedience of Noah, play Rueben's Torn Clothes. The current wording would make you play Obedience of Noah)

CountFount · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2009, 11:43:47 AM »

So is there a consensus that if someone uses UN after an RA is begun with PoC then PoC gets to search for a good dominant?

CountFount · « **Reply #23 on:** June 13, 2009, 12:01:31 PM »

Quote from: Da Muzik Maker on June 13, 2009, 11:53:22 AM

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on June 11, 2009, 05:43:04 PM
I say no also. UN never says anything about a hand, so I would say it is blocking from the deck.

That is how we play it around here, but how...will...they ....rule...at.....NATS.....Can you say which judge will you get???

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2009, 02:56:05 PM »

i still stand by my answer:
a)to search for a card by defaulf is to place in hand
b)to play a card by default is to play ferom hand

News:

Author Topic: Unknown Nation and Priests of Christ (Read 7138 times)

The Schaef

The Schaef

Rawrlolsauce!