Author Topic: United Army and FBTN heroes... (Read 7148 times)

amelo · « **on:** January 03, 2009, 03:56:44 PM »

Here's the situation:

I RA with a red brigade hero and opponent blocks. I have initiative and play United Army, banding in all of my OT warrior class heroes. The problem is one of those heroes is Benaniah. What happens? Is Benaniah not able to enter battle?

United Army: red brigade good enhancement, special ability: All OT warrior class heroes must join the battle.

Benaiah: green brigade hero, special ability: Negate all special abilities on non-warrior class characters and non-weopon class enhancements.

Red · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2009, 03:57:28 PM »

i think it is negated

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:04:00 PM »

The battle goes FBTN cept WC. No heroes are banded in. Continue flow of init.

lightningninja · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:09:49 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 03, 2009, 04:04:00 PM

The battle goes FBTN cept WC. No heroes are banded in. Continue flow of init.

Correct.

STAMP · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:22:20 PM »

Quote from: fireninja on January 03, 2009, 04:09:49 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 03, 2009, 04:04:00 PM
The battle goes FBTN cept WC. No heroes are banded in. Continue flow of init.
Correct.

Depends.

For example, in the scenario where you play United Army on Spy and band in Isrealite Archer who bands in Heldai who bands in Benaiah, and you use IA's arrow, then Spy, UA, Heldai and Benny stay in battle. IA goes back to territory but the EC that was shot with the arrow stays discarded.

Remember to complete abilities before moving on to the next WC hero you band in. And only go back and negate the non-warrior and non-weapon class abilities.

DaClock · « **Reply #5 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:36:08 PM »

I disagree, the negate of the band would cascade to negate all of the other abilities because it's treated like they were never in battle.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #6 on:** January 03, 2009, 04:38:38 PM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 03, 2009, 04:36:08 PM

I disagree, the negate of the band would cascade to negate all of the other abilities because it's treated like they were never in battle.

Correct.

lightningninja · « **Reply #7 on:** January 03, 2009, 07:38:27 PM »

Yep, unless it's like gathering of angels or any other cbn band.

STAMP · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:05:29 AM »

Quote from: DaClock on January 03, 2009, 04:36:08 PM

I disagree, the negate of the band would cascade to negate all of the other abilities because it's treated like they were never in battle.

Only if you band in Benaiah first.

It is the same reason players will choose Captain of the Host first prior to The Strong Angel when playing Three Angels.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:11:10 AM »

I disagree. Benaiah negates United Army which undoes the first banding and therefore all the rest (except CBN).

DaClock · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2009, 01:35:12 AM »

Quote from: STAMP on January 04, 2009, 12:05:29 AM

Quote from: DaClock on January 03, 2009, 04:36:08 PM
I disagree, the negate of the band would cascade to negate all of the other abilities because it's treated like they were never in battle.

Only if you band in Benaiah first.

It is the same reason players will choose Captain of the Host first prior to The Strong Angel when playing Three Angels.

That's different. In your scenario, everything is prevented except banding. The banding can still take place.

In this scenario, Benaniah negates the band. He doesn't directly negate IA, Spy, whoever, but by negating the band he indirectly negates them.

STAMP · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2009, 12:32:35 PM »

I think where you may be getting confused is that in my scenario Heldai and Benaiah are in battle as a result of IA's special ability, not United Army. A "band all" or "band many" special ability works differently than a string of "band to single" special abilities. The cascading negate effect, or "house of cards" impacts each differently, especially since warrior-class Benaiah isn't truly a "negate all". He is a "negate all non-warrior and non-weapon class", which is only a subset. Let's look at the REG:

Quote

Banding a “play by the numbers” character negates the banding ability. The character must return to the territory. However, the battle is now “play by the numbers” because a “play by the numbers” card cannot negate itself. The cards in a banding chain that follow the first banding card that can be negated are all negated. The net result is that the cards are indirectly negated. This situation is typically referred to as the “cascading negates” or the “house of cards”.

The key sentence is "The cards in a banding chain that follow the first banding card that can be negated are all negated". The banding ability on IA that brings in Heldai is not negated. All the heroes that are brought in by United Army are returned to territory.

IF I had banded in IA, decided not to use his SA, then banded in Heldai, decided not to use his SA, and finally banded in Benaiah, THEN all the heroes would return to territory because they were all banded in as a result of United Army.

DaClock · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2009, 02:44:35 PM »

If you negate United Army, you indirectly negate Israelite Archer. Doesn't matter if the rest were banded because of Israelite Archer because having him brought into battle in the first place is negated in either scenario.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2009, 03:46:39 PM »

STAMP, the quote you used from the REG is exactly the reason that the band "cascades" away. United Army is directly negated, while all the rest are indirectly negated. Your premise that they are WC would only keep them in if they were trying to be directly negated.

Your other quote - "The cards in a banding chain that follow the first banding card that can be negated are all negated." - refers to cards that have CBN status, which none of the ones you mentioned have. They all can be negated, just not directly by Benaiah (Kings).

lightningninja · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2009, 04:09:27 PM »

I also disagree, STAMP. I used sadducees to band to all other sadducees. However, that included another "sadducees" that banded to all sadducees. However, when Gabe played cymbals of the levites, it negated the first sadducees ability, which "indirectly" negated the other sadducees. That's just how it works. It's as if IA was never banded in.

STAMP · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:15:04 PM »

Fortunately for YMT and fireninja they do not attend tournaments I judge.

As for DaClock, it's just fortunate he doesn't play fbtn wc-banding.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:17:09 PM »

I need to capture some demons.

STAMP · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2009, 11:18:44 PM »

DaClock · « **Reply #18 on:** January 05, 2009, 12:36:21 AM »

Speaking of which, we talked about you at Josh's tournament. I gave somebody Doubt, it was captured, and Sog was played on it. We figured you would like that.

STAMP · « **Reply #19 on:** January 05, 2009, 10:32:24 AM »

It's a redeemed captured demon AND it's a dominant. Great. Just great.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #20 on:** January 05, 2009, 09:38:03 PM »

actually, Doubt's not a demon. It's a "Generic OT Genderless (not Human, not Demon)"

777Godspeed · « **Reply #21 on:** January 05, 2009, 11:36:17 PM »

Quote from: fireninja on January 04, 2009, 04:09:27 PM

I used sadducees to band to all other sadducees. However, that included another "sadducees" that banded to all sadducees. However, when Gabe played cymbals of the levites, it negated the first sadducees ability, which "indirectly" negated the other sadducees.

One word for the Sadds banding.........Besieged.

Godspeed,
Mike

lightningninja · « **Reply #22 on:** January 06, 2009, 11:39:33 PM »

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on January 05, 2009, 09:38:03 PM

actually, Doubt's not a demon. It's a "Generic OT Genderless (not Human, not Demon)"

You're right... bummer. One day, we will find a way to redeem a demon... lol. But only if the playtesters make a mistake.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #23 on:** January 07, 2009, 03:10:13 AM »

You can :-p its called baggage

STAMP · « **Reply #24 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:28:07 PM »

Getting back to the original issue, I just remembered an example that has been being used since Kings. Armorbearer xN to Isrealite Archer xN to Benaiah. DaClock and NWJosh have used this in T2 a lot over the years. When Benaiah comes in the only heroes that have been returned to territory are the ones banded in by an Armorbearer.

News:

Author Topic: United Army and FBTN heroes... (Read 7148 times)