Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Alright, so a recent ruling was passed by Rob as to the definition of "Use" on artifacts.

Used = activated

Since this is the case, does Unholy Writ get discard after 1 round of being active, rather than after 1 capture? The wording on the two cards is practically the same.

Unholy Writ
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: A human Hero in battle may be taken prisoner. Discard Artifact after use. • Play As: When holder chooses, capture a human Hero during battle. Discard Artifact after one use.

Assyria's Tribute
Type: Artifact • Brigade: • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: While you are blocking with an Assyrian, negate all special abilities on Enhancements and Heroes. Cannot be negated during the battle phase. May be used twice per game.

A human hero in battle MAY be taken prisoner.

-I believe the place of 'may' in Unholy Writ allows it to work the way it always has.

Ah, but that's not what Rob said. Rob said that Activating an Artifact constitutes using it. The Capture is the SA on Writ, but as demonstrated on Assyrian Tribute a "use" can be used up without ever activating the ability.

A human hero in battle MAY be taken prisoner.

-I believe the place of 'may' in Unholy Writ allows it to work the way it always has.

In the Play as, "may" has been removed.

Key Word: When holder chooses. It has a clause defining a special use for this artifact.

AT has the clarifier "When you Block with an Assyrian" and yet it's used up simply by being activated.

Unholy Writ says Capture a Hero in battle. You can use this once per copy of Unholy Writ. After you capture a hero, discard this card.

If UW gets an Errata/different Play as then I'd agree with you. But as it stands it seems that the working ruling of UW clashes with the ruling of AT. Seeing as AT is the most recent, I'm more inclined to go with it.

I think we need to avoid the witch hunts every time a ruling comes down.

No. We must follow Salem's example.

Thanks YMT. Isn't it your fault he's playing and thus your fault he's ruining staple artifacts?  

You've taken what Rob said out of context to create a fallacious arguement.  I'll quote his exact statement so you can read it again carefully and see that it doesn't change anything about how Unholy Writ has been or will be played:

Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM

Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are not optional and do not specify a delayed trigger must be applied upon activation.  Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are optional can be applied at any time their owner chooses so long as that time satisfies any other existing requirements.

I agree.  In other words, these are not "on demand" but must be use during the Prep Phase that the artifact was activated or remained activated.  Even so, I think anytime during the Prep Phase is okay.  I.E. I change my face up artifact, go on to something else and then come back to it prior to starting my battle.

Also, the rulebook states:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. Once such an artifact, covenant, or curse is activated, it must be counted as having been used. This is true even if other events duplicate the effect of the artifact, covenant, or curse during the turn.

This is one reason such artifacts are not "on demand" but must be used when activated.

Oh. Man. I messed up my sources Mr. Tim  Please don't fail me! 

First, Gabe, I didn't misquote him.

That's correct, you didn't.  You've taken this accurate quote out of context.  Rob's statement of Used = Activated pertains directly to the question about Assyria's Tribute.  It has nothing to do with "on demand" or "optional use" Artifacts like Unholy Writ.

First, Gabe, I didn't misquote him. If you click the link in my post you'll see it's a direct quote from a different thread than you're quoting.

Maybe you didnt misquote him, But you definitely did not understand what he was saying.  The Key explanation is in Tim Maly's Quote above Rob's quote.  UW is an optional/delayed trigger.  It cannot be used unless someone is in battle so merely having it activated cannot cause it to be used.  Furtheremore, UW is an optional (it has the "may" in the title).  AT is not optional and activating it does use it up.  I dont like the idea that I can be "blocking" without actually presenting a character in battle, but just having it up does have an effect on whether someone makes a RA that turn.  So in some ways it is more similar to Burial Shroud than anything else.

Quote from: SirNobody on July 03, 2009, 06:52:38 PM

Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are not optional and do not specify a delayed trigger must be applied upon activation.  Artifacts (or covenants or curses used as artifacts) that have instant abilities that are optional can be applied at any time their owner chooses so long as that time satisfies any other existing requirements.

I agree.  In other words, these are not "on demand" but must be use during the Prep Phase that the artifact was activated or remained activated.  Even so, I think anytime during the Prep Phase is okay.  I.E. I change my face up artifact, go on to something else and then come back to it prior to starting my battle.

Also, the rulebook states:
Some artifacts, covenants, or curses have a limited number of times you can use them. When these come to an end, you must discard them immediately. Once such an artifact, covenant, or curse is activated, it must be counted as having been used. This is true even if other events duplicate the effect of the artifact, covenant, or curse during the turn.

This is one reason such artifacts are not "on demand" but must be used when activated.

but just having it up does have an effect on whether someone makes a RA that turn.  So in some ways it is more similar to Burial Shroud than anything else.

I can't tell you how many times I've been stalled by Unholy Writ because I had no banding and no way to deal with that artifact.

I don't see how you fixed anything. What I said is compliant with the Rulebook. Activating it counts as "using" it, then once it come to my turn again, It's been "used" one time, so it must be discarded.

Quote from: crustpope on July 26, 2009, 10:09:56 PM

but just having it up does have an effect on whether someone makes a RA that turn.  So in some ways it is more similar to Burial Shroud than anything else.

I can't tell you how many times I've been stalled by Unholy Writ because I had no banding and no way to deal with that artifact.

Sacrifical lambs.