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Now I have even MORE questions about SELF.  I have a multi-evil color deck where if I could have a 1/1 multi=color EC I could really wreak some havoc.

1)  Say I copy your 5/5 hero.  The I use one of the evil set asides on Self that allows him/her to gain 1/1 per turn set aside.  I bring him back after one turn, and now I am 6/6.  If your hero leaves play, am I now 1/1 and still in play?

2)  Can I use that evil set aside that allows me to choose whether he comes back 12/12 or 1/1?  Say I do so and Self is now 1/1.  Is he still a "copy" of that hero, in the sense that if the hero leaves play I still have to discard Self?

3)  If I capture the hero that Self is copying, that hero is still "in play", right?

4)  Maybe this would work.  Put two OT 1/1 heroes in my deck, along with Stalks of Flax.  I activate Stalks of Flax and give you my two 1/1 heroes for two turns.  I am now allowed to bring Self in and copy one of "your" new 1/1 heroes, correct?  Would anything change after I get my heroes back in two turns?

5)  I assume Torment will not save Self if he is being discarded because his copied hero is being discarded?

6)  Do Self's power/toughness change as the hero's does?  For example, if I copied Joel (1/1), and Joel gets a lost soul, now Joel is 2/2.  Is Self now 2/2 or still 1/1?  Or I copy a 4/4 hero and activate Plagued with Diseases.  Does the toughness of Self go down because the toughness of the hero just did?

Thanks so much.  One more thought.  Can Self be converted with Holy Grail to become a multi-color hero?

Put two OT 1/1 heroes in my deck, along with Stalks of Flax.  I activate Stalks of Flax and give you my two 1/1 heroes for two turns.  I am now allowed to bring Self in and copy one of "your" new 1/1 heroes, correct?  Would anything change after I get my heroes back in two turns?

This would work to make Self 1/1. Once the original selected hero (no matter who controls him) is removed from play, Self becomes 0/0.

I disagree with this answer. Self specifies that you have to copy one of opponent's heroes, meaning the opponent has to own them, and your opponent does not own your heroes when you use Stalks of Flax.

As an extension to question #2, if I copy a hero, then that hero is captured (or converted), then the captured (or converted) hero is discarded, does Self still discard itself? The hero never left play - only a captured hero (or EC) left play.

since "Captured heroes are not heroes," I would say that once the hero is no long a hero, Self dies, whether by Capture, Conversion, or discard.

But the hero never left play. It only became something else. Then that something else left play.

it is no longer a hero, so it's gone.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2010, 08:44:18 AM

Quote from: BubbleBoy on April 01, 2010, 08:37:50 AM

But the hero never left play. It only became something else. Then that something else left play.

it is no longer a hero, so it's gone.

I think you are dumb. So there.

*insert high pitched voice of a 3rd grader* I KNOW YOU ARE, BUT WHAT AM I?

Quote from: stefferweffer on March 31, 2010, 05:59:08 PM

Thanks so much.  One more thought.  Can Self be converted with Holy Grail to become a multi-color hero?

no.

Then why, when Saul becomes a hero (Paul) via Holy Grail, is he multi-color?

Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Another question.

He gains the identifiers of said character right? What if I copied a hero sadducee/pharisee and had High Priests Palace out? Would I then have a permanent 0/0 multicolor EC?

If I was to keep him alive like this, would I then be allowed to boost his stats with a set aside?

WIN. epicness.

I think you only get discarded from play if your defense is 0.

In T2 you could just block with him as 0/0 from territory, win, and 1/1.

In T2 you could just block with him as 0/0 from territory, win, and 1/1.

Good call. Actually, that makes me wonder: when does experience credit get applied? During battle resolution? After all characters return to territory? Somewhere in between? In this case, it could make a difference.

By the way, if things like Elijah's Mantle or Plagued with Diseases are active, or a hero you are copying has been permanently decreased by Job's Three Friends, or has experience credit or something, do things like that factor into Self's ability?

Elijah's Mantle and PwD: No. Those are not permanent increases, and they only affect heroes.
Experience Credit and Job's Three Friends and other permanent increases/decreases: Yes.