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Unbound would negate Go Into Captivity (activated as an artifact) while trying to capture my hero, right? It says "evil capture abilities."

Unbound
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: White • Ability: 3 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate evil capture abilities. Return all captured Heroes to owners’ territories. Add any number of them to the battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Daniel 3:25 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 6)

I would say yes.  I remember a ruling that the brigade on a curse (activated as an artifact) counted as an "evil brigade in play."  I forget which good card this pertained to, but that aside, if the curse maintains it's evil brigade while activated as an artifact, then I say it maintains its evil-ness for Unbound's purposes.

Hey,

Go Into Captivity is an evil capture ability so the Negate on Unbound can target it.  But if Go Into Captivity is used before Unbound is played, then Go Into Captivity is not in play (because of the self discarding) and thus isn't targeted by Unbound.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Quote from: SirNobody on July 17, 2010, 07:30:45 PM

But if Go Into Captivity is used before Unbound is played, then Go Into Captivity is not in play (because of the self discarding) and thus isn't targeted by Unbound.

This is the part that I still do not get. The SA of GiC is not complete until the capture is completed. If I negate the capture, which I am allowed to do by game rule, then I do not see why the "discard this card to" clause matters. The card's SA can not be active if it is in the Discard Pile. The card is on the way to the discard pile. I do not understand why negating my removal cannot target the card that is causing the removal.

FWIW, I know that this is the way it has always been ruled, but I need clarification as to the why, because it makes no sense to me.

The thing is abilities on cards have to complete before you can play anything. You cannot interrupt a card ability while it is completing. Therefore the hero gets captured (pending a negate) and GiC goes to the discard pile. Then by game rule you can play a negate , but since unbound and other cards that could get rid of the curse only target cards in play you cannot negated it. Understand?

You get the opportunity to Negate whatever's killing you, but it's up to you to be legally able to target it.


Wait, I just changed my mind half way through posting this. If Korah's Rebellion can be Negated by something that doesn't target cards removed from the game, why couldn't Unbound Negate GiC?

So...Samson's Sacrifice, Discards my PO, I ITB D2 and get Discarder. Can I Discard my PO with Discarder?

Yes, but SS is also a cost/benefit like GiC. Either Unbound can Negate GiC or in the situation I described, Discarder can't target PO.

Interesting. I have always been a little confused by the way negate is handled, but it works most of the time, so I don't complain. I'm glad a problem has been caused though, because I think a better explanation is needed.

You can't negate something that isn't in play, like you can't DoN Unsuccessful after it's used

I see no reason why GiC cannot be negated just because it was discarded first.

In the Reg quote it say it negates the last enhancement, GiC is not being used as an enhancement

I understand that, but I was using the quote as evidence that you can indeed negate a card that is in the discard pile. Unbound specifically targets an evil capture ability, which GiC has. The fact that GiC is in the discard pile is not grounds for completely disregarding the negate, IMO.

I also understand that I may be wrong, but I'm still not convinced why I am wrong, since there is precedent for negating something in the discard pile.

I agree 100%.

I have always been told that the reason you cannot use DoN to negate Unholy writ is the card is not there to be discarded, and therefore cannot be negated by the second line.  I fail to see why Unbound would not stop GiC.  Unbound is not targeting the card, it is targeting the ability.  No where on unbound does say negate the last capture card, or the last enhancement.  It just says capture ability.

You can't negate something that isn't in play, like you can't DoN Unsuccessful after it's used

This untrue, you can negate Korah's rebellion, you can negate Joseph in Prison.  If the evil card not being there any more actually made it untargetable for negate then how could we ever negate anything?

But Unbound does not target the card, it targets the ability.

It depends on what the rules say. If they say that Enhancements removing you give you initiative to Interrupt, then GiC is safe. But if it says abilities removing you, then Unbound should be able to Negate it.