Author Topic: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?  (Read 5927 times)

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2011, 03:52:18 PM »
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That is my understanding as well.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2011, 04:20:30 PM »
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The only problem with that analogy is that when a covenant is in draw pile or hand, it can't be targeted as an artifact or enhancement, but dual alignment cards can be targeted as both good and evil in deck/hand.  This to me draws a distinction between covenants and dual cards and shows that they are different on some level, meaning they should be ruled differently.  I would say that because the can be targeted as both good and evil in deck, then they are both good and evil all of the time, or that they should be considered neutral in deck/hand and when you play them they are then good or evil.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2011, 04:27:57 PM »
+4
That is not very logical. At all times their card type is Enhancement. At face value, the alignment of that card type is both Good and Evil. When the card is played, one alignment or another is chosen, and it loses the other.

This is the only way to be consistent with the rule that Heroes don't play EE's and EC's don't play GE's. It's also the most logical and the most consistent with similar rulings on similar card types.
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2011, 05:17:00 PM »
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I would be supportive of making an official "joint" card type, provided that it functions the way I described earlier.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2011, 05:35:44 PM »
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That may boost the Green brigade too much.
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2011, 05:38:22 PM »
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I don't think so. Zeke and Isaiah both already search for a good card from their respective books. Unless I'm missing something, that's the main thing I'd be worried about.

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2011, 05:40:28 PM »
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Then you either need to create a new dual alignment card type that functions this way or change the rule that heros can only play enhancements that are good and not exclusively good and evil characters can play enhancements that are evil and not exclusively evil.  To me it should not be a new card type because it doesn't have its own symbol and it is no different that a regular enhancement except for the fact that it both good and evil.  Here is the REG definition of enhancement, it says nothing about notbeing able to play an evil enhancement on a hero of visa versa, it just says that the brigae color must match.  Please alert me to any other REG entries that say otherwise, but according to this, you can play an enhancement that is both good and evil on a hero, as long as 1 of the brigates matches the hero.

Enhancement
Enhancements have abilities and/or special abilities that affect game play. Abilities on enhancements are combined with the character’s abilities. Enhancements are generally used in the Battle Phase. However, healing enhancements, set-aside enhancements, and weapon-class enhancements can be played outside of battle. Good enhancements have a Bible icon and are used by Heroes. Evil enhancements have a skull icon and are used by Evil Characters. An enhancement must be of the same color brigade as the character upon which it is played.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2011, 05:42:49 PM »
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Gold Hero plays Wonders Forgotten. Your argument is invalid.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2011, 06:01:26 PM »
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Don't blame me, that's what is in the REG.  As of right now a gold hero could play wonders forgotten unless there is something in the REG that says otherwise.  Of course this will need to be changed in the REG if it is not in there already somewhere.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 06:15:35 PM by sepjazzwarrior »

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2011, 06:45:22 PM »
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Whether or not it's in the REG, nobody is making a serious argument that it's not a rule.
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Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2011, 12:12:00 AM »
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Idk what I'm really arguing anymore :) mainly I just don't think it should be its own classification on enhancement because it doesn't have its own symbol and it could lead to confusion for something like seigeworks with people not being able to remember if it was played as a good or evil enhancement halfway through a game.  I think it would be easier to change the rule to make it so that you just have to play an enhancement to match the character's brigade and officially classify the gold brigades as good gold and evil gold than to make dual alignment its own kind of enhancement.  Redemption has enough different kinds of enhancements and classifications, we don't need to add another, its alreay a confusing enough game to learn, no need to make it harder

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2011, 12:47:13 AM »
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As of right now a gold hero could play wonders forgotten unless there is something in the REG that says otherwise.  Of course this will need to be changed in the REG if it is not in there already somewhere.
It is in there already...

Enhancement
Enhancements have abilities and/or special abilities that affect game play. Abilities on enhancements are combined with the character’s abilities. Enhancements are generally used in the Battle Phase. However, healing enhancements, set-aside enhancements, and weapon-class enhancements can be played outside of battle. Good enhancements have a Bible icon and are used by Heroes. Evil enhancements have a skull icon and are used by Evil Characters. An enhancement must be of the same color brigade as the character upon which it is played.
Wonders Forgotten does not have a Bible icon, so it cannot be used by a hero.

Offline sepjazzwarrior

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2011, 01:20:05 AM »
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Good catch EmJayBee83

So under the rules right now there is nothing wrong with playing a dual alignment enhancement on a character.  From what I see, you need to fill 2 requirements to play an enhancement on a hero/EC:
1.  It must have the correct icon (Bible or dragon)
2.  It must be of matching brigade

As long as the enhancement meets these requirements, you can play it.  We don't need to create a new card type or anything, dual alignment enhancements follow all the rules right now, so no need to make it any more confusing. 

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2011, 01:26:19 AM »
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Agreed, no new card types. DAE's are Enhancements.

*EDIT* Just thought of another flaw to your letter-of-the-law argument. Gold Hero plays Seven Years of Famine. According to you, legal (has a Bible icon and is gold).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 03:09:38 AM by Minister Polarius »
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2011, 11:56:23 AM »
+1
Dual Alignment Enhancements (DAEs) are both good and evil while not on the table (in deck, hand, discard pile), but that once they are played they lose their other identity.  Therefore, a DAE played on a hero is no longer an EE, and can't be targeted as such.  And a DAE played on an evil character is not longer a GE, and can't be targeted as such.

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2011, 12:05:43 PM »
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w00t
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2011, 12:00:18 AM »
+1
Prof, I don't think quoting yourself counts as two elders being in agreement.  ;)


Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2011, 12:01:57 AM »
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Prof, I don't think quoting yourself counts as two elders being in agreement.  ;)

He has a Dual Personality Disorder (DPD).  ;)
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2011, 03:15:21 AM »
+1
Prof, I don't think quoting yourself counts as two elders being in agreement.  ;)
You are of course correct.  However, this is an instance where I am merely reporting the consensus decision of the elders in general, and not just my own opinion about a ruling.  Therefore, this should be taken as official at this time.

P.S.  I know you were joking :)

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2011, 09:21:12 AM »
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Prof, I don't think quoting yourself counts as two elders being in agreement.  ;)

He has a Dual Personality Disorder (DPD).  ;)
Depends on if he's played on Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2011, 04:01:32 PM »
+2
Prof, I don't think quoting yourself counts as two elders being in agreement.  ;)

He has a Dual Personality Disorder (DPD).  ;)
Depends on if he's played on Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hyde.

There's no need to use fictional names. His personality split is already well documented. His good side (Prof Underwood) and his evil side (ProfessorAlstad) are constantly at war with each other.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: What do good evil enhancements count as in the draw and discard piles?
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2011, 05:40:48 PM »
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There's no need to use fictional names. His personality split is already well documented. His good side (Prof Underwood) and his evil side (ProfessorAlstad) are constantly at war with each other.

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