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Negate is not simply "interrupt and prevent". To interrupt and prevent causes the same result as to negate, but the converse does not hold.

So, is "Negate all" an ongoing ability that reactivates and interrupts and prevents all active abilities when it is interrupted?  How is negate different from interrupt and prevent?

Since that's a Saturday, I guess you're not holding too tightly to that oath.

I remember reading a post by Tim Maly to the effect of what I wrote above.

It cancels everything before (unless it can't be interrupted/negated) and everything after (unless it can't be prevented/negating). It's ongoing. It eliminates the problem of "continual interrupt" and the "not negating from within the umbrella" stuff that was mentioned here, as far as I can tell.

Here's my understanding as of now, very possibly wrong.

Stops "Cannot be Negated?" No
Stops "Cannot be Prevented?"
-If CbP is played first, Yes. If CbP is played Second, No.
Stops "Cannot be Interrupted?"
-If CbI is played first, No. If CbI is played Second, Yes.

So, negate all functions like an interrupt when played vs a "Cannot be Prevented" ability. It also functions like a prevent when played before a "Cannot be Interrupted" ability.

So when an ability like this is interrupted (2k Horses vs TSA), it reactivates. When it reactivates, the interrupt cannot choose any new targets, just like any other instant ability. But the prevent still prevents abilities happening in the future. So I believe the enhancement played under the 2K "Umbrella" isn't negated by TSA under these circumstances.

From what you're saying, it sounds like we don't even need to use a can't be prevented card, even something like Stocks would work, because Stocks would activate before TSA's prevent reactivated, therefore the prevent couldn't stop it and the interrupt wouldn't even try to target it, because it chose its targets (all characters and enhancements in play, non WC) at the time it was placed into battle.

"Negate" targets all cards before it and all cards after it. Every card (except TSA itself) is either before or after it, including Stocks.

Negate (all) is an ongoing ability, and is listed as such in the REG.  Just because interrupt is instant and negate performs a similar function does not make negate "instant" in that direction.

Too much has been made of interrupt + prevent = negate over the years.  The intention is/was that since we understand interrupt to reach backwards and prevent to reach forwards, that negate does both functions because it reaches in both directions.  Also, older cards that say "interrupt and prevent X" should now be read simply as "negate X".  You start bogging yourself down in trying to micro-define them and you're going to miss the forest for the trees.

Hey,

Addressing the theory in this thread, "interrupt and prevent has the same effect as negate" is true, and has been true for many years (it comes from a 2000 ruling about Ehud's Dagger [Warriors]).  Somehow over the years that got morphed into "Negate = interrupt + prevent" which isn't the same thing, isn't true, and has caused a ton of confusion on the matter over the years.  At least my opinion is that it isn't true (whether it's true or not doesn't have much effect on how the game is played – so making rulings assuming it is true won't make the rulings incorrect, it just makes them harder to explain – so I really hope that doesn't lead to anyone leaving the game, especially before the next release of the REG).

Props to Ben and Tim for remembering how I've explained this before.

Addressing the practical side of this thread, all “Negate All”/”Fight by the Numbers” abilities should be played as “negate and prevent all special abilities on characters and enhancements.”  Abilities on cards played before the by the numbers card are negated, abilities on cards played after it are prevented.  It has two special ability keywords “negate” and “prevent” but it is one ability – a compound ability (same concept as a compound verb, which as a sentence is what that ability has) – because the two keywords share a set of targets.  If any part of a compound ability is normally ongoing, the compound ability is ongoing, so even though negate is normally instantaneous, in this case it is ongoing because it is part of a compound ability with the normally ongoing prevent ability.

So back to the original example, Two Thousand Horses interrupts the entire ability of The Strong Angel, because the entire ability is one compound ongoing ability.  When Two Thousand Horses completes (which includes the enhancement played by it's ability) The Strong Angel reactivates, which then includes both the negate effect and the prevent effect since both were interrupted.  The negate part then negates the enhancement played because of Two Thousand Horses.

Tschow,

Tim “Sir Nobody” Maly

I was so flummoxed I looked at the calendar wrong.  Fortunately, after Sunday, August 2, no one will ever have to worry about me looking at the REG wrong.

You can still play Redemption with us and just never look at the REG again..... please? 

Hey,

Wow, so CBP doesn't work vs prevent abilities?

Not exactly sure where you got that from.  Cannot be Prevented works against prevent effects, it just some cards use the word prevent when they shouldn't, and some cards don't when they should.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Hey,

so negate is its own ability and any AW inserts should be ignored cuz they are wrong?

I don't have access to the angel wars inserts for the weekend, can you quote for me the part that you are referring to?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The Angel Wars insert that I found says:

"Cannot be prevented" means that the special ability activates when the card is played, regardless (oh no, there's that word again!) of any negate or prevent ability that is already affecting battle.  However, a "cannot be prevented" ability can be interrupted or negated after it is played.

In the rare scenerio that you have "turned off" TSA's negate all with an interrupt/play next your "cannot be prevented" card would be negated when TSA's negate all kicks back in.  This happens because the negate all activates after the card was played.  In all other circumstances, if your "cannot be prevented" card is played after TSA's negate all is in effect your card will work.

For additional reference:

"Cannot be interrupted" is the opposite.  These special abilities can be prevented before they are played.  But if they are not prevented before they are played, nothing can interrupt or negate them after they are played.

"Cannot be negated" includes both of the above.  These abilities cannot be prevented beforehand, and cannot be interrupted or negated after being played.