Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Identifier: Generic, Holds a single-brigade brown curse.
* Play this character
SA: if played from hand, you may reserve a card from hand to activate a brown curse from reserve on this card.

Will the SA allow you to put a multi brigade curse here as long as one of the brigades is brown? If yes can it stay active multiple turns? Would it only be active for that first turn?

One thing I don't understand is how you hold a single-brigade curse as an active artifact.  Artifacts, even if they are curses, don't have brigades. 

Logically, it seems to me that Transgressors should hold single-brigade Brown curses the way old Storehouse or Musician's Chambers hold enhancements.  And I'd further argue that you could activate any Brown curse (even multi ones like Broken Covenant or CWD) on Transgressors via its special ability - even if it is already holding a single-brigade curse.

I'm not trying to start a debate where their shouldn't be one.  I'm really not.  But the "Holds" identifier is kinda tricky when the cards you want to hold are DACs, which have one side as an Art and one side as an EE.  Because there are cards that hold active Arts and there are cards that hold unused EEs. 

So does that mean an activated curse counts still has a brigade and would count towards something that counts neutral brigades, like affliction of job?

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on May 01, 2019, 10:30:33 PM

Holds is being updated to clarify that anything that specifically holds Covs and Curses holds them as Artifacts, not Enhancements.

Activate an Artifact is being updated to clarify that if you activate something where there's a holds, the activated Art has to qualify for the holds.

Are those updates that are actually the rules and our paperwork hasn’t caught up or are those things that are currently being updated still?

They're the rules, and have been for a while. Transgressors and friends are just the impetus for adding them.

I'm not sure when the first card that held Curses/Covs was (Pithom or BotC is my guess, depending on exact wording), but the holds ruling goes back to Ithamar being limited to activating Tabernacle Arts on the Tabernacle.

So does that mean an activated curse counts still has a brigade and would count towards something that counts neutral brigades, like affliction of job?

No. You only "see" the brigade when you refer to it as a Curse, because it's not a Curse if it doesn't have the Enhancement part.

I think part of the confusion stems from Curses and Covenants being special titles for a certain set of dual alignment cards.

For example, when we look for evil brigades, we don't look at the Brown brigade on King Saul if he's been played as a Hero or the Black brigade on Foreign Sword if it's been played as a good enhancement.

However, if a card said "Discard a Brown dual-alignment character" then it could discard King Saul even if he's been played as a Hero because it's targeting his default state (both Brown EC and Purple Hero).

This is why a card that says "Take a City" can take a City regardless if it's been played as a Site or Fortress and likewise a card that says "Discard a Covenant/Curse" can discard those regardless if they have been played as an Artifact or Enhancement.

We just don't have a special name for dual alignment characters (or dual alignment enhancements for that matter) that allow them to be targeted regardless of which way they are played.

My understanding is that they will be genderless just like other mixed groups (Complainers, Angry Mob, etc).

Definitely not genderless. I tried making that argument/suggestion with Gabe when it was originally spoiled and it was shot down. Since the image is apparently of males (even though one of them looks like a female) the card depicts male humans and thus not genderless.

I found the post where you asked the question about Transgressors being genderless, but I see no such reply from Gabe. Do you recall where he posted that?

Yeah, he remembered when I brought it up. We are discussing among the Elder team. Part of the challenge is that the artwork comes from a larger piece which definitely depicts both males and females. Stand by for official ruling...

Quote from: The Guardian on May 02, 2019, 01:33:30 PM

However, if a card said "Discard a Brown dual-alignment character" then it could discard King Saul even if he's been played as a Hero because it's targeting his default state (both Brown EC and Purple Hero).

I would disagree with this.  If a card said "Discard a dual alignment character", then yes, it can discard King Saul whether he is played as purple or brown.

But as soon as you say "Discard a Brown dual-alignment character", I don't see how it can target a purple King Saul in play.  He's a dual alignment character, and he's brown at face value, but when he's played as a purple hero he's no longer "at face value".

*****

I guess I don't understand why, if an ability like "Discard a Brown dual alignment character" can target a purple King Saul, why can't an ability that discards evil enhancements discard a curse played as an Art?

I agree with this. The card in that example would be looking for a target that is [Brown] [Dual Alignment] [Character] and a Hero King Saul in play does not fit the requirement of being brown.

What if Transgressors’ ability was negated, would I still be able to activate a single-brigade brown Curse on it during my prep phase based upon the identifier allowing me to hold one on him, or is the identifier strictly tied to the ability in all respects? I see it holding it regardless of the ability, like Pithom. The ability would just be an added benefit of activating the curse right away.

I never saw a full answer on this, but because it says brown and does not specify single brigade brown like the gray EC holding a single brigade gray curse, then I played it as multicolor and was placing Fall of Man on him and 3 other curses on him as well while testing him out on my own. I think since it does not specify single brigade brown, it should be evil multi/brown dual or whatever.

I was just running through my cards and saw it says single, so I don't think Transgressors should be able to hold anything but what it says, a single brigade brown curse.