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Author Topic: Toss?  (Read 4094 times)

LukeChips

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2015, 11:06:03 AM »
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Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 15, 2015, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Jmbeers on January 14, 2015, 05:55:03 PM
You can never instead a cost and still get the benefit. For instance if you play grapes on an NT Evil character and your opp uses Herod's temple, the shuffle and new battle attempt never trigger.
I've been out of the game for a year and this makes no sense to me, can anyone explain why if I pay a cost and someone instead's it that it doesn't count?
Do you not get the Grapes part or the Toss part?
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Offline Praeceps

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2015, 11:39:44 AM »
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Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 15, 2015, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Jmbeers on January 14, 2015, 05:55:03 PM
You can never instead a cost and still get the benefit. For instance if you play grapes on an NT Evil character and your opp uses Herod's temple, the shuffle and new battle attempt never trigger.
I've been out of the game for a year and this makes no sense to me, can anyone explain why if I pay a cost and someone instead's it that it doesn't count?

Because if someone insteads your paying the cost, then in game terms it was never payed and thus, no benefit.
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Just one more thing...

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2015, 11:45:56 AM »
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Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on January 15, 2015, 10:39:11 AM
Quote from: Jmbeers on January 14, 2015, 05:55:03 PM
You can never instead a cost and still get the benefit. For instance if you play grapes on an NT Evil character and your opp uses Herod's temple, the shuffle and new battle attempt never trigger.
I've been out of the game for a year and this makes no sense to me, can anyone explain why if I pay a cost and someone instead's it that it doesn't count?

Because you never paid the cost.  Expounding on Praecep's answer, whatever was supposed to happen initially 'never happened' and 'instead' you have a new effect.

If I play Tenants Kill the Son, it says "Discard a hero to draw a card."  If you use Herod's Temple to 'instead' the discard, then it never actually happened, because 'instead' you discarded a card of matching brigade and the top X of your deck.  I don't get to draw a card, because I never discarded a hero.

Cost/Benefit and Conditional abilities are like that, where you have to actually meet what's on the card to get the related things to happen.
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Offline Deck Metrics

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2015, 11:57:05 AM »
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How would TEC Peace's Toss ability work with Widows' Tables. Would enhancements discarded return to Tables for an infinite loop if you're using a deacon?

TEC Peace
Place on your clay or blue Hero: When this Hero is in battle alone, toss all Enhancements played this battle. Cannot be interrupted.

Widows' Tables
If a clay Enhancement is discarded (or underdecked) from your hand during battle, you may place it here instead. Your deacons may use Enhancements from here as if played from hand.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 12:00:59 PM by delarosajon »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2015, 12:06:41 PM »
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Quote from: delarosajon on February 02, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
How would TEC Peace's Toss ability work with Widows' Tables. Would enhancements discarded return to Tables for an infinite loop if you're using a deacon?

No, as with the other stuff mentioned above, Toss is a cost-benefit because it says that you 'discard the enhancement to decrease.'

If the discard is insteaded, that means it never happened, so you don't get the decrease.
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LukeChips

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2015, 12:13:20 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on February 02, 2015, 12:06:41 PM
Quote from: delarosajon on February 02, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
How would TEC Peace's Toss ability work with Widows' Tables. Would enhancements discarded return to Tables for an infinite loop if you're using a deacon?

No, as with the other stuff mentioned above, Toss is a cost-benefit because it says that you 'discard the enhancement to decrease.'

If the discard is insteaded, that means it never happened, so you don't get the decrease.
Its the same with primary objective and widows tables, right?
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2015, 12:22:13 PM »
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Quote from: LukeChips on February 02, 2015, 12:13:20 PM
Its the same with primary objective and widows tables, right?

That's a different discussion altogether for the other thread where that is going on, and it is still being discussed to make sure that everyone is on the same page ;)
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LukeChips

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2015, 12:34:20 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on February 02, 2015, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: LukeChips on February 02, 2015, 12:13:20 PM
Its the same with primary objective and widows tables, right?

That's a different discussion altogether for the other thread where that is going on, and it is still being discussed to make sure that everyone is on the same page ;)
Ok, So the elders are debating it.
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Offline Deck Metrics

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2015, 12:16:25 PM »
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Okay, so I've been looking through my TEC cards thinking about what everyone has said about Widows' Tables not working with Peace (Toss). I noticed 3 cards from TEC that all had similar wording in their special ability that sounds like you could still instead a cost and get the effect. Parmenas, Nicolas of Antioch and Fortunatus. All three allow you to discard a clay card (or enhancement in either case) from hand to do an effect. But they also include text referencing to Widows' Tables insteading the cost and still getting the effect.

Parmenas - you may discard a clay enhancement from hand (or place it on widows tables) to negate an evil card and return it to owner's hand.

Nicolas of Antioch - negate evil character with toughess less than x. You may discard a clay enhancement from hand (or place it on widows tables) to search your deck or discard pile for a clay convert enhancment.
X= # of your deacons

Fortunatus - look @ the top x cards of deck: you may discard a clay card from hand (or place a clay enhancement on widows tables) to take one to hand, then underdeck the rest. Cannot be interrupted.
X = # of your corinth heroes in play.

Feed back?
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Toss?
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2015, 12:50:36 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on March 01, 2015, 12:50:19 PM
Those specific cards have alternate conditions for satisfying the 'cost'.  Either one can be done and still count as the cost, that is how they are worded.  And as browarod stated, we already have some cards that do that in different ways like Herod's Temple, but this one gives you two choices rather than an ability and an instead in a specific circumstance.

Those cards you mentioned were intentionally designed to be boosted when you play them with Tables out.
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