Author Topic: Toss? (Read 4091 times)

LukeChips · « **on:** October 15, 2014, 12:56:46 PM »

What does the redemption term toss mean?

Bobbert · « **Reply #1 on:** October 15, 2014, 01:11:58 PM »

From the wiki:

"A toss ability allows a player to play an enhancement in a different way than normal; instead of activating the numbers and/or special abilities of the enhancement, the enhancement is discarded to decrease an opposing character by X/X (where X is the strength of the discarded enhancement)."

Redoubter · « **Reply #2 on:** October 15, 2014, 01:13:23 PM »

Try the REG for information about specific abilities, and let us know if something is unclear from there. Quoting from that entry:

Quote from: REG

Toss
Last Updated: 3/4/2013
Released: 3/4/2013
General Description
A toss ability allows a player to discard an enhancement to decrease an opposing character in battle.
How to Play
A toss ability allows a player to play an enhancement in a different way than usual; instead of activating the numbers or special abilities of the enhancement, the enhancement is discarded to decrease an opposing character by X/X (where X is the strength of the discarded enhancement).
Default Conditions
 Enhancements disards to the toss ability must come from hand.
 The strength of the discarded enhancement is determined by the face valye of the card.
 Targets for the decrease must be in battle and controlled by opponent.

LukeChips · « **Reply #3 on:** October 15, 2014, 02:15:34 PM »

Thanks guys. This is really helpful. I just thought you discard the enhancement.

Kor · « **Reply #4 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:51:00 AM »

So toss allows you to discard to the toss ability or forces you to?

Redoubter · « **Reply #5 on:** October 16, 2014, 07:10:38 AM »

Quote from: Kor on October 16, 2014, 01:51:00 AM

So toss allows you to discard to the toss ability or forces you to?

Depends on how the ability is worded. Both we have so far (Foreign Spearmen and Peace) cause ALL enhancements played to be tossed. But if an ability were worded "You may toss an enhancement..." then it would be optional as it states.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #6 on:** October 16, 2014, 01:19:02 PM »

The default conditions says that the tossed enhancements must come from hand, does that mean weapons don't get tossed when they enter battle on a character when the battle is in a Toss condition?

Redoubter · « **Reply #7 on:** October 16, 2014, 02:11:36 PM »

That is the default, but weapons are a card type where they are 'played' from play instead of from hand ('placed' on a character and 'played' when they enter battle). The definition of playing a weapon takes precedence, and the weapon is tossed if the Toss ability is already in place.

LukeChips · « **Reply #8 on:** October 16, 2014, 02:12:40 PM »

I wouldn't think so, but I'm definitely no elder.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #9 on:** October 16, 2014, 02:19:01 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on October 16, 2014, 02:11:36 PM

That is the default, but weapons are a card type where they are 'played' from play instead of from hand ('placed' on a character and 'played' when they enter battle). The definition of playing a weapon takes precedence, and the weapon is tossed if the Toss ability is already in place.

That's what I thought, but was confused by the default conditions in the Toss rules. Really it would make more sense to get rid of the entire line since that's just the default for how playing enhancements works.

jbeers285 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2015, 08:36:01 PM »

If the strength is dynamic (x) does it still decrease them by the x amount?

Drrek · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2015, 12:35:46 AM »

Quote from: jbeers285 on January 09, 2015, 08:36:01 PM

If the strength is dynamic (x) does it still decrease them by the x amount?

I can't see why it wouldn't

Redoubter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2015, 12:47:24 AM »

Since the card is discarded, and the decrease is instant, it does not dynamically change the value later, but it certainly has that value when played.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #13 on:** January 14, 2015, 05:44:54 PM »

Is the discarding the enhancement part of the cost of Toss? Can I instead the discard and still receive the -X/X?

LukeChips · « **Reply #14 on:** January 14, 2015, 05:51:58 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on January 14, 2015, 05:44:54 PM

Is the discarding the enhancement part of the cost of Toss? Can I instead the discard and still receive the -X/X?

I am pretty sure that the answer is no.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #15 on:** January 14, 2015, 05:55:03 PM »

You can never instead a cost and still get the benefit. For instance if you play grapes on an NT Evil character and your opp uses Herod's temple, the shuffle and new battle attempt never trigger.

browarod · « **Reply #16 on:** January 14, 2015, 05:56:07 PM »

If your hand is protected from discard/opponents do you play the enhancements normally or does Toss get through that sort of protection also?

LukeChips · « **Reply #17 on:** January 14, 2015, 05:59:02 PM »

Quote from: browarod on January 14, 2015, 05:56:07 PM

If your hand is protected from discard/opponents do you play the enhancements normally or does Toss get through that sort of protection also?

I don't think Toss would overrule that kind of stuff.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #18 on:** January 14, 2015, 06:23:33 PM »

Toss would still happen because you are still playing the enhancement. Toss just changes the effect. You are not forced to do anything so the protection of hand and deck is irrelevant.

The Guardian · « **Reply #19 on:** January 14, 2015, 06:26:53 PM »

^Correct.

Toss doesn't target your cards for discard, it's simply causing them to be "tossed" which is playing them in a different way. Tossing a card is playing it, not discarding it.

Redoubter · « **Reply #20 on:** January 14, 2015, 06:29:13 PM »

However, I believe we ruled it that Thaddeus would stop Foreign Spearmen (if the X were large enough) because he also protects cards in play, and thus protects the enhancements wherever they are from the Toss effect.

The Guardian · « **Reply #21 on:** January 14, 2015, 06:33:30 PM »

Maybe that should be revisited then because it seems a bit convoluted (especially since we just ruled that the decrease aspect of TOSS happens regardless of protection or immunity).

Jmbeers · « **Reply #22 on:** January 14, 2015, 06:37:02 PM »

So just say toss is regardless of effect. It's concise and makes the ability a tad bit more playable on D.

Redoubter · « **Reply #23 on:** January 15, 2015, 07:41:20 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on January 14, 2015, 06:33:30 PM

Maybe that should be revisited then because it seems a bit convoluted (especially since we just ruled that the decrease aspect of TOSS happens regardless of protection or immunity).

It is the right ruling by the current rules. Thad protects cards in play, and that is where they are when they are 'played'. They are also protected in hand if we're looking at all points along the way. You cannot instead discard them if they are protected.

Quote from: Jmbeers on January 14, 2015, 06:37:02 PM

So just say toss is regardless of effect. It's concise and makes the ability a tad bit more playable on D.

The recent update to Toss does not include that clause for the 'regardless', but that's a discussion we could have.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2015, 10:39:11 AM »

Quote from: Jmbeers on January 14, 2015, 05:55:03 PM

You can never instead a cost and still get the benefit. For instance if you play grapes on an NT Evil character and your opp uses Herod's temple, the shuffle and new battle attempt never trigger.

I've been out of the game for a year and this makes no sense to me, can anyone explain why if I pay a cost and someone instead's it that it doesn't count?

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Author Topic: Toss? (Read 4091 times)

LukeChips

LukeChips

LukeChips

LukeChips

browarod

LukeChips