Author Topic: Tithing. (Read 3385 times)

Rawrlolsauce! · « **on:** April 03, 2011, 12:29:09 AM »

I use Tithe to place Covenant of Moses on Moses. I win the battle. Does Cov with Moses just kind of hang on Moses?

Tithe (Pi)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 1 / 10 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may place an Enhancement from hand on a Hero of matching brigade in your territory. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and holder may draw a card. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Malachi 3:10 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

HUGE EDIT:!!!

Rule book says: All enhancements played during the Battle Phase (except set-aside or weapon-class enhancements, or cards placed on other cards during battle) are discarded to the respective owner’s discard pile. Assuming no dominants are played during Battle Resolution to prevent it, the rescue attempt is successful, and your opponent must select and surrender to you one available Lost Soul from his Land of Bondage.

Essentially it boils down to the definition of play. Are cards that were placed (ie: weapons) played when they enter battle. If not....

Does battle (regarding the first set of parentheses) refer to this battle or a battle? Can you please let tithe be broken? I feel cheated after far country didn't work :c.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #1 on:** April 03, 2011, 12:31:23 AM »

I think it would be discarded after battle by game rule.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #2 on:** April 03, 2011, 12:34:32 AM »

Actually after consulting the rule book further it depends on the definition of played ("all enhancements played in battle are discarded blah blah blah"). I just assumed it'd be similar to IoJ or DS without looking.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2011, 12:42:16 AM »

I think, as the rules are now, that it wouldn't be discarded. But this is totally broken and will be fixed, I'm sure.

Until then, I have an awesome new deck for next weekend...

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2011, 12:43:38 AM »

This does get more awesome with recursion. ~~Return character to hand, shuffling, etc~~ after reading about how weapons work this just got 50x more broken. Or just plain awesome stuff like Moses + Cov.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2011, 01:01:15 AM »

Or you can place ANB! Five times! And then use the new 2011 Que to recur it from outside of the game.

JSB23 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 03, 2011, 01:48:46 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on April 03, 2011, 01:01:15 AM

Or you can place ANB! Five times! And then use the new 2011 Que to recur it from outside of the game.

I know, I'm so psyched out about his "When redeemed" ability

STAMP · « **Reply #7 on:** April 03, 2011, 11:59:09 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on April 03, 2011, 12:31:23 AM

I think it would be discarded after battle by game rule.

BINGO! Here, I'll give you the Rawrlolsauce method:

Step 1: Play Tithe in battle, activate SA.
Step 2: Place enhancement from hand on hero in territory.
Step 3: Add trigger #1 - enhancement activates when hero enters battle in future.
Step 4: Add trigger #2 - holder may draw a card.
Step 5: Follow rules in Redemption rulebook that have been around since 1995 on how to play an enhancement.
Step 6: Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Step 7: Profit!

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2011, 01:16:15 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on April 03, 2011, 11:59:09 AM

Step 1: Play Tithe in battle, activate SA.
Step 2: Place enhancement from hand on hero in territory.
Step 3: Add trigger #1 - enhancement activates when hero enters battle in future.
Step 4: Add trigger #2 - holder may draw a card.
Step 5: Follow rules in Redemption rulebook that have been around since 1995 on how to play an enhancement.
Step 6: Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Step 7: Profit!

Not exactly. Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post. Essentially I'm trying to make tithe turn any enhancement to a weapon class one.

Step 1: Play Tithe
Step 2: Attack with the tithed character, activate the enhancement.
Step 3: Draw a card
Step 4: Win the battle
Step 5: Hope that the PTB decide cards aren't played when they activate, but when they're put in play,,,,,,,,, so the placed enhancement isn't discarded.
Step 6: Repeat step 2, 4, and 5 as many times as wanted.

Although after thinking about it, this may not even have the enhancement activate every battle beings no rule specifically states it does (how it differs from weapons). This would still be useful with Moses/Cov then, however.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2011, 01:34:37 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 03, 2011, 12:29:09 AM

All enhancements played during the Battle Phase (except ... or cards placed on other cards during battle) are discarded to the respective owner’s discard pile.

Based on that quote, I have to say it sticks.

browarod · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2011, 02:03:43 PM »

Even if it did stay, it wouldn't be at all useful the second and following battles beings Tithe says "The next time that Hero enters battle" and I see no plurality on "time".

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 03, 2011, 02:20:02 PM »

Asked...

Quote from: browarod on April 03, 2011, 02:03:43 PM

Even if it did stay, it wouldn't be at all useful the second and following battles beings Tithe says "The next time that Hero enters battle" and I see no plurality on "time".

...and answered.

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on April 03, 2011, 01:16:15 PM

This would still be useful with Moses/Cov then, however.

browarod · « **Reply #12 on:** April 03, 2011, 03:46:52 PM »

I was more referring to the numbers, but w/e. Seeing as there's no way to deactivate it after activating it like this, wouldn't the "may be used twice" cause it to discard itself after 2 battles anyway?

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 03, 2011, 04:32:51 PM »

I agree with browarod, the numbers wouldn't do anything because tithe only provides one activation time for that enhancement.

Since this card is being used as an enhancement, and is being activated in no way shape or form as a covenant, it's text wouldn't take effect.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:33:13 PM »

I don't think it would even work for the numbers. A Hero with IoJ placed on it doesn't gain 1/3, why should Moses gain the numbers from CoM just sticking around placed on him? No rule allows for that.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:36:55 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 03, 2011, 07:33:13 PM

I don't think it would even work for the numbers. A Hero with IoJ placed on it doesn't gain 1/3, why should Moses gain the numbers from CoM just sticking around placed on him? No rule allows for that.

Of course, IoJ is an evil enhancement which will never add to a hero's numebrs so I am not sure why you would think this is a valid counter-example. Can you provide a case where a good enhancement on a hero of matching brigade does not add to the hero's numbers?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:37:57 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 03, 2011, 07:33:13 PM

I don't think it would even work for the numbers. A Hero with IoJ placed on it doesn't gain 1/3, why should Moses gain the numbers from CoM just sticking around placed on him? No rule allows for that.

The rulebook says, "The effects of the abilities (*/*) on the enhancement are always used to increase the abilities (*/*) of the character upon which the enhancement is played." I assume that when I place the enhancement (or when it enters battle if the ptb decide on a definition) I'll be playing it on Moses, in which case he is increased. Although that's probably irrelevant old wording considering that doesn't explain why ECs that play IoJ don't get a boost.

So, although I do really think he'd get a boost, even if he doesn't I still want an answer considering it'd be helpful for... uhh... return to hand abilities... I guess.

The Guardian · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:40:30 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 03, 2011, 07:36:55 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 03, 2011, 07:33:13 PM
I don't think it would even work for the numbers. A Hero with IoJ placed on it doesn't gain 1/3, why should Moses gain the numbers from CoM just sticking around placed on him? No rule allows for that.
Of course, IoJ is an evil enhancement which will never add to a hero's numebrs so I am not sure why you would think this is a valid counter-example. Can you provide a case where a good enhancement on a hero of matching brigade does not add to the hero's numbers?

Saul's Spear in a Hero side battle.

Edit* Oh rats, it's only the strength that has no affect...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:42:44 PM »

Place IoJ on a Hero and then play Corrupted on it. Does the new EC gain 1/3 from IoJ every time it enters battle?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #19 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:43:16 PM »

I've played that a placed Judas' Plot results in a 2/2 (or 4/4 on Judas) increase...

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:47:36 PM »

I may be wrong, but I've never played it or seen it played that way.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:55:04 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 03, 2011, 07:42:44 PM

Place IoJ on a Hero and then play Corrupted on it. Does the new EC gain 1/3 from IoJ every time it enters battle?

That is closer to the original question, although there is still a fundamental asymmetry. IoJ could *not* by game rule increase the abilities of a hero when played. Covenant O'Moses could cause an increase in Moses' numbers when played. I am not sure this makes a fundamental difference to the question, but it is a major difference. All of this in alignment with the quote from the rulebook Rawrlolsauce! provided. (And assumes I understand the current definition of "played," which is not assured.)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2011, 07:59:08 PM »

My example is probably the closest parallel. to Mr. Mo + Cov of Mr. Mo

Does Judas' Plot, placed on an EC (in battle or out), add 2/2 to the EC's abilities on following turns?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 03, 2011, 08:23:29 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on April 03, 2011, 07:59:08 PM

My example is probably the closest parallel. to Mr. Mo + Cov of Mr. Mo

It is, indeed.

Quote

Does Judas' Plot, placed on an EC (in battle or out), add 2/2 to the EC's abilities on following turns?

If the EC is not crimson, then no. If the EC is crimson then I don't know.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #24 on:** April 04, 2011, 02:12:17 AM »

All good questions and more questions

I think Polarius is more than right in stating that there is no rule for how placed enhancements operate when activating in battle. Heck! We can't even decide on when they are played...

Quote

Place IoJ on a Hero and then play Corrupted on it. Does the new EC gain 1/3 from IoJ every time it enters battle?

-And I especially liked this one.

Let me chime in and say that I do agree that plazors should be activated by the player that placed them aka OWNERS- cmon guys, take responsibility for what your cards do.

except for maybe sent to serve- i think this one might have fought off the elders frenzy and survived!

as to the whole when is a card played? I say when it comes out of your hand, you played it. aka I place a weapon class enhancement on my hero and attack- no your trembling demon wont stall.

News:

Author Topic: Tithing. (Read 3385 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

Rawrlolsauce!

Warrior_Monk

Rawrlolsauce!

Rawrlolsauce!

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod

browarod

TheHobbit13

Rawrlolsauce!

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo