Author Topic: Time for a Serious Discussion About...  (Read 877 times)

Offline Professoralstad

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Time for a Serious Discussion About...
« on: March 09, 2010, 03:46:29 PM »
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...Sites with special abilities. I know this issue has been brought up before, but I'd like to bring it up again so that it can be ironed out once and for all.

Here is what the REG says about Sites with Special abilities:

Quote
Special abilities on sites are not affected by character or enhancement cards. New Jerusalem (Site Card), Dragon Raid, and Promised Land are mainly used offensively as “access sites” and therefore their special abilities are written to take effect when they enter battle and at no other time.  All the single color sites are mainly used defensively as “lost soul sites”.  The special abilities on single color sites like Nero’s Realm and Leper Colony are written to take effect when they are holding a lost soul.  Therefore, if you are using an “access site” defensively or a “lost soul site” offensively the special abilities don’t activate.

This was all well and good until TexP when we were introduced to this Site:

Quote
Herod’s Dungeon

Type: Site • Brigade: White • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: While blocking with a Herod while this Site is unoccupied, you may capture a male human Hero with strength 7/* or greater and place it here. When you block with Herodias, you may discard a captured Hero. • Identifiers: Israel • Verse: Matthew 14:3 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Obviously there is a problem, especially if more sites like this are made.

There are currently 24 sites in the game with special abilities:

--6 of them say Evil Cards here are protected from Dragon Raid (obviously evil cards can be on an unoccupied site, but this probably wouldn't be too bad if it didn't work while unoccupied).

--4 of them are "access sites", and all of their SA's make sense with the current definition.

--The rest will be broken down individually:

Jerusalem--Says "while blocking..." You can't block a site with no LS, so the current definition is fine.

Leper Colony--This site has it's own issues, since human Heroes can never be held in Sites (captured human heroes can). However, if it were to be given the proper play as, then it's SA would be fine, since the SA only works when occupied.

Lystra--See Jerusalem

Nero's Realm--See Leper Colony

Pergamum--Says "while occupied..." Therefore no problem.

Hormah--This might be an issue, since you could have contents (like placed cards) without it being occupied. And it might be strategic for demon defenses. Not a huge deal if it didn't work though.

Babylonian Banquet Hall--If this site activated when you put the first soul, then you could do the rest of them. So it's fine.

Ashdod--See Pergamum

Jericho--Specifies a rescue attempt at site, so no problem

Mildewed House--Trigger only needs to be active when occupied, since a LS must be rescued from it for ability to work.

Roman Prison--See Jerusalem

Banks of the Nile/Pharaoh's Court--First part is an identifier (like Saul/Paul's), for the second part, it converts as a triggered effect, and has "while occupied" for its ability.

Herod's Dungeon--Herein lies the main problem.

Kir--Would still work if the above rule were to remain valid, but would be a better card if the rule were to change.

So any rule change would only affect at maximum 9 cards (the six protect from DR, Hormah, Herod's Dungeon, and Kir) and most of these are fine as is, though slightly less powerful. Only Herod's Dungeon is tremendously harmed by the current rule, but since it is a key part of an up and coming strategy, it is definitely worth a look.

Here's what I propose:

The default is that special abilities on non-access sites are active only when occupied by a Lost Soul. Only a site with a special ability that says "while this Site is unoccupied" can have an active ability without an occupying Lost Soul.

An access site's ability is active only when it is in battle. Access site could either be made an identifier that is added to the four already in existence and is put on the identifier line of any future ones, or it could just be defined as any multicolored site with all good brigades.

That way, we don't restrict ourselves to never having a site like Herod's dungeon made again, but we also don't have to add the phrase "while occupied" to every site that is made again. Thoughts?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 03:49:30 PM by Professoralstad »
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Time for a Serious Discussion About...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2010, 04:34:33 PM »
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To add, here is what is in the rulebook under

Redemption® Rulebook > Diagram of a Turn > Preparation Phase > Site Maintenance

Quote from: Rulebook in REG
Site Maintenance
You may move your site to your Land of Bondage and place a Lost Soul into the site. Place the Lost Soul on the site so that the icon box on the site is visi­ble. (See Player’s Card Arrangement). A site that holds a Lost Soul is considered occupied. Once a site is occupied, neither the Lost Soul nor the site can be moved until the Lost Soul is rescued or discarded. Only one Lost Soul card may be held in a site at a time (unless a special ability says otherwise). The special ability on a single-colored site is active only while it is occupied.
Final ANB errata: Return player to game.

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Time for a Serious Discussion About...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 04:38:05 PM »
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Right. So according to the current rules, the only thing HD is good for is blocking with Herodias to discard a captured hero.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Time for a Serious Discussion About...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 07:58:17 PM »
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hm... i never thought about leper colonie that way... i do have a question though, do captured heroes still keep their numbers in the first place? considering they are now a lost soul, and they cant enter battle.

I'm guessing so. Captured heroes keep all of their identifiers, and I would say that numbers are enough like an identifier that it would count. And Leper colony wouldn't work at all if they didn't.
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