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Author Topic: Throne of Grace  (Read 1407 times)

Offline Lex1122

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Throne of Grace
« on: May 17, 2018, 02:17:08 PM »
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If my hero’s are being removed from battle and I activate ToG to negate it. I discard my single brigade enhancement to negate it. Is that consider the last card played?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2018, 02:22:44 PM »
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The last card played would be the opponent's evil card that you just negated.
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Offline Jeremystair

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2018, 02:28:10 PM »
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We were in a mutual destruction and we wanted to know if throne of grace or the card that was discarded was considered the last card played does it pass initiative to the evil character now?

Also how does throne of grace work? If I create special initiative by removing my opponents last hero from Battle special initiative states that you can only plan enhancement that interrupts or negates. Throne of grace is a fortress so how would it work?

The only thing I can figure is that the heroes have to be removed from Battle and then you can discard a card which then puts them back in the battle, is this how it works?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 02:34:00 PM by Jeremystair »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2018, 02:45:59 PM »
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Quote
The only thing I can figure is that the heroes have to be removed from Battle and then you can discard a card which then puts them back in the battle, is this how it works?

Yes. However, since ToG doesn't happen in special initiative, the evil card would still need to be in play in order to be negated so I believe a card like Joseph in Prison that also removes itself from play could not be targeted by Throne of Grace.

Quote from: Kevinthedude on May 17, 2018, 02:22:44 PM
The last card played would be the opponent's evil card that you just negated.

Correct.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:54 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on May 17, 2018, 02:45:59 PM
Quote
The only thing I can figure is that the heroes have to be removed from Battle and then you can discard a card which then puts them back in the battle, is this how it works?

Yes. However, since ToG doesn't happen in special initiative, the evil card would still need to be in play in order to be negated so I believe a card like Joseph in Prison that also removes itself from play could not be targeted by Throne of Grace.

Was ToG’s ability something that wasn’t considered when Special Initiative was written (or rewritten) and should be since it specifically deals with SI? I’m thinking it should even if the card that’s causing the removal is removed from play so it can remain consistent with how SI works with an enh (which can still be played even if the removing card is no longer in play).
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2018, 03:25:54 PM »
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Was ToG’s ability something that wasn’t considered when Special Initiative was written (or rewritten) and should be since it specifically deals with SI? I’m thinking it should even if the card that’s causing the removal is removed from play so it can remain consistent with how SI works with an enh (which can still be played even if the removing card is no longer in play).

Special initiative pre-dates Throne of Grace. If Throne of Grace had been designed as an instead (similar to Herod's Temple) then it would work, but that isn't what we decided to do.

Regarding the last point, cards aren't removed from play immediately when SI occurs, that is why it's called "special initiative" and why those cards can be targeted by an interrupt or negate enhancement.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2018, 04:08:31 PM »
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"That card" might be equivalent enough to "last card" that it overrides the default targeting of in play, so Throne of Grace could target the card anywhere.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2018, 05:34:40 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on May 17, 2018, 03:25:54 PM
Quote
Was ToG’s ability something that wasn’t considered when Special Initiative was written (or rewritten) and should be since it specifically deals with SI? I’m thinking it should even if the card that’s causing the removal is removed from play so it can remain consistent with how SI works with an enh (which can still be played even if the removing card is no longer in play).

Special initiative pre-dates Throne of Grace. If Throne of Grace had been designed as an instead (similar to Herod's Temple) then it would work, but that isn't what we decided to do.

Regarding the last point, cards aren't removed from play immediately when SI occurs, that is why it's called "special initiative" and why those cards can be targeted by an interrupt or negate enhancement.

Regardless it is my opinion that TToG should just work like regular SI. I agree with Aggie that the ability appears to target the card anywhere.  It would be lsimpler to rule it this way than have some exception that it can only target a card in play (which, as you said, the enh doesn’t leave play anyways).

Regarding your second point, I was under the impression that a card like Lahmi’s Spear “Do X in order to do Y” that the discard of the card itself needed to happen first in order for the discard of the hero to take effect.
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Throne of Grace
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 05:52:24 PM »
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"This card" doesn't override the default targeting (Overcome!, Silly Women, etc.), so I may be wrong on "that card". Being reset to face value may mean a card is no longer "this card" or "that card" for targeting purposes.

SI doesn't necessarily keep the card on the table, but does allow it to be targeted as if it were on the table.
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