Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on June 18, 2011, 10:46:26 AM
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Question 1 - My opponent attacks me, I block with Salome, who then bands to Herod Agrippa II. My opponent converts Salome to a hero. Can I capture her with Herod Agrippa II's ability? Based on this REG quote I think the answer is yes:
A converted character in an illegal situation must withdraw to its owners territory (e.g., a Hero blocking a rescue attempt resulting from an Evil Character being converted).
Herod Agrippa II (TP)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: None • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Negate protect abilities on Fortresses. If a Hero withdraws from battle, you may capture it. May band to a Sadducee. Cannot be negated.
Question 2 - If Salome is converted and later captured, can I use Rash Oath on her? The quote from the REG below also makes me think the answer is yes:
The character remains converted even if set aside, captured, or rescued.
Rash Oath (TP)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 1 / 2 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Discard a captured Hero to discard the top card of each opponent’s deck (or top 2 if used by a Herod). Put Lost Souls in play instead.
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The REG is outdated and should not be taken literally. The answer to your first question is "no." The character is being converted, not withdrawn.
The answer to your second question is "yes." A converted EC is a hero, and a captured hero is targettable by Rash Oath.
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YMT is correct on both counts.
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YMT is correct on both counts.
Why? What is Salome doing when she gets converted? Clearly she can't stay in battle. Therefore she must leave. When she leaves, as a hero, she is withdrawing. Why isn't she captured?
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"Withdraw" as a term in Redemption is a specific type of ability. Salome isn't withdrawing any more than a character that is discarded "withdraws" to the discard pile. That's how I see it anyway. Other elders can chime in if necessary.
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That's a completely different scenario because a discard creates an abnormal location destination. It seems to me that anything that allows a character to return to a territory for any reason without harm before battle resolution should be a withdraw for the purposes of HAII.
"The withdraw special ability either allows a character to exit battle unharmed or it forces an opposing character to leave the battle unharmed. Once a character withdraws from battle, the character may not reenter battle during the same turn."
Seems like Converstion would have an implied version of the bolded text due to game rule.
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That's a completely different scenario because a discard creates an abnormal location destination. It seems to me that anything that allows a character to return to a territory for any reason without harm before battle resolution should be a withdraw for the purposes of HAII.
"The withdraw special ability either allows a character to exit battle unharmed or it forces an opposing character to leave the battle unharmed. Once a character withdraws from battle, the character may not reenter battle during the same turn."
Seems like Converstion would have an implied version of the bolded text due to game rule.
Two things: If Salome is targeted by a good convert, she is not unharmed. Secondly, when she becomes a Hero, she is no longer an opposing character. So I really don't think it applies here.
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Hmm. Interesting. It seems like under the current definition of harm and withdraw, you are correct, but that really defies all logic imo that a hero can leave the battle but not be considered to be withdrawing.
I guess I just don't get why she is leaving the battle as opposed to staying in the battle and fighting against the EC after conversion. But, since she doesn't, and instead goes to territory, it seems logical to think that she withdrew from battle...
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I've always viewed it as the converted character was dazed and confused, trying to figure out the magnificance of their new faith. They just wandered into their territory by chance.
Of course, if they were converted by a Baptist, then they were heading up to the altar to meet with the Pastor, shuffled by a member of the congregation who was peeking when the Pastor said, "If you prayed that special prayer, then raise your hand quickly for me, with no one looking around."
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Choose blocker/rescuer forces a character out of battle but is not a withdraw ability.
A converted character returns to territory because game rules do not allow characters of the opposite alignment on your side of the battle. It does not "withdraw" the character.