Author Topic: Thirty pieces of silver (Read 3800 times)

TheHobbit13 · « **on:** August 10, 2009, 01:12:46 PM »

Shouldn't the play as be an errata? The original ability lets you discard an unblocked hero the play as only lets you discard a hero that you blocked.

Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Regardless of battle outcome Hero is discarded. "David's Harp" has no effect. May be used twice. • Play As: Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Hero in play at the end of battle that you blocked. Negate David’s Harp. May be used once per battle and twice per game. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 26:15-16 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:14:31 PM »

I think both abilities only allow you to discard a hero in battle. "Hero" in the original means IMO "hero you blocked".

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #2 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:25:25 PM »

That's exactly what it means, no opinions necessary.

In order to discard an unblocked hero, the SA would have to say "a hero."

The Guardian · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2009, 01:33:24 PM »

It appears it was given a Play As so that people could not discard any Hero they felt like after the battle. However, I believe Hobbit is correct that either there needs to be an errata, or the Play As needs to be adjusted. A player should be able to discard a Hero that made a rescue attempt or battle challenge unblocked. A player should not be able to discard any Hero in play after a different Hero makes a rescue attempt or battle challenge.

I propose:

Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Hero in play (at the end of battle) that entered battle. Negate David’s Harp. May be used once per battle and twice per game.

frisian9 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:18:16 PM »

Changing the "play as" is not a problem. Help me understand where you think it is deficient. It is my understanding from the situation of Spy coming out and retreating, that a battle outcome is granted. If that case has a battle outcome, what is being missed?

Mike

happyjosiah · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:31:06 PM »

The play as specifies "that you blocked." In the case of spy, you never got a chance to block, but could still discard it.

The as written seems to specify you can discard ANY hero in play, whether they entered battle or not.

Neither of these is correct.

frisian9 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:52:59 PM »

The current play as does state it is restricted to those that were blocked. I see your point about Spy not being blocked if he retreats. That does call for a correction. I'll get on it later tonight. Thanks for calling it to my attention.

Mike

Play as: Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Hero in play at the end of battle that was in battle. Negate David’s Harp. May be used once per battle and twice per game.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2009, 06:29:30 PM »

Might I suggest a slightly modified version of that?

At the end of a battle against holder, discard one Hero in play that was in battle, regardless of battle outcome. Negate David’s Harp. May be used once per battle and twice per game.

frisian9 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:23:09 PM »

Thanks for the suggestion, but the "At the end of a battle against holder" sounds like it implies a battle. I agree it is more compact, but I prefer to leave the emphasis on "regardless of battle outcome". Do you see what I mean?

Mike

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:30:22 PM »

Following battle resolution of a Rescue Attempt against you, discard one hero who entered battle. Negate David's Harp. May be used twice per game and once per rescue attempt.

Mr. B, your version makes it sound like you can use it following your rescue attempts. That's the only issue I see with it.

Ironica · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:26:57 AM »

Also it sounds like it can hit people in multi that aren't battling you (since it just says "Regardless of battle outcome, discard one Hero in play at the end of battle that was in battle" and says nothing about them having to come after you).

That's just my take on it.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #11 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:47:20 AM »

Play as:

"Once per turn, discard a hero used in a rescue attempt or battle challenge against you after that battle. Negate David's Harp. May be used twice."

I think this works, and it's fairly concise. The "once per turn" makes it so only one hero can be discarded per battle. The "against you" means it is only used on a hero who attacked you. The card doesn't say it's a twice per game ability; I think that multiple copies should all be able to work. Adding "per game" would be errata. Of course, I'm not sure if it was intended to work like Ark, where even if you discard the EC using other means, Ark is used. In that case, it should be:

"Once per turn, a hero used in a rescue attempt or battle challenge against you is discarded after that battle. Negate David's Harp. May be used twice."

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2009, 01:36:56 PM »

As as long as we are making abilities that we like for thirty pieces of silver.

Once per turn, Following a rescue attempt against you discard the Garden Tomb and search opponents deck and artifact pile for U&T and burn it . Davids Harp has no effect.

That seems balanced.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2009, 02:27:21 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on August 11, 2009, 01:36:56 PM

Once per turn, Following a rescue attempt against you discard the Garden Tomb and search opponents deck and artifact pile for U&T and burn it . Davids Harp has no effect.

OP'd. Ban it!

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2009, 04:46:59 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on August 11, 2009, 02:27:21 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on August 11, 2009, 01:36:56 PM
Once per turn, Following a rescue attempt against you discard the Garden Tomb and search opponents deck and artifact pile for U&T and burn it . Davids Harp has no effect.

OP'd. Ban it!

I like your logic

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:11:16 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on August 11, 2009, 01:36:56 PM

As as long as we are making abilities that we like for thirty pieces of silver.

Once per turn, Following a rescue attempt against you discard the Garden Tomb and search opponents deck and artifact pile for U&T and burn it . Davids Harp has no effect.

That seems balanced.

But, then, Holder must tear this card in half. Cannot be Negated.

Smokey · « **Reply #16 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:17:43 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 11, 2009, 06:11:16 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on August 11, 2009, 01:36:56 PM
As as long as we are making abilities that we like for thirty pieces of silver.

Once per turn, Following a rescue attempt against you discard the Garden Tomb and search opponents deck and artifact pile for U&T and burn it . Davids Harp has no effect.

That seems balanced.

But, then, Holder must tear this card in half. Cannot be Negated.

It says 'once per turn' I guess you would have to rip it once you deactivate it.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #17 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:28:36 PM »

Due to the OP'd nature of this card, the SA will have to be changed from "tear this card in half" to "tear this sentence into thirds."

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** August 11, 2009, 06:38:24 PM »

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I don't think anyone was trying to add to the ability, we were merely trying to figure out what the card actually does.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 11, 2009, 08:41:03 PM »

I didn't mean to imply that you weren't.

frisian9 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:03:52 PM »

Nice - I appreciate the work in getting the wording smithy'ed out. This form suggested by Justin doesn't include the "regardless of outcome", but perhaps it is redundant, eh?

Play as - "Once per turn, discard one Hero in play used in a rescue attempt or battle challenge against you after that battle. Negate David's Harp. May be used twice."

Mike

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:37:35 PM »

So just to be clear, according to that wording, if I have Thirty Pieces of Silver active and my opponent attacks, after which I block with a black EC and play Wrath of Satan, Thirty Pieces isn't used once correct? Since it specifies "in play"? That is different than how Ark of the Covenant works (or used to work). If what I said is correct, then Thirty Pieces became a lot more usable than I thought. And that would be nice, seeing as how I recently got five of them from my TexP packs.

frisian9 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:42:59 PM »

Hmmm. "In play" is what I recall was always used. Am I correct, or am I ancient history? There have been so many interpretations and rule changes made for this card over the years. I might not be the best one to make the ruling. It really is arbitrary. I read the original ability to IMPLY that a Hero is still present.

Mike

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #23 on:** August 12, 2009, 08:45:56 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 12, 2009, 08:42:59 PM

Am I correct, or am I ancient history?

My son says that ancient history is cool, especially while he is playing Civilization or Age of Empires.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #24 on:** August 12, 2009, 09:08:14 PM »

Quote from: frisian9 on August 12, 2009, 08:42:59 PM

Hmmm. "In play" is what I recall was always used. Am I correct, or am I ancient history? There have been so many interpretations and rule changes made for this card over the years. I might not be the best one to make the ruling. It really is arbitrary. I read the original ability to IMPLY that a Hero is still present.

Mike

I remember way back in the day when I had my Warriors Ark of the Covenant that I used at will, and I was happy. If I lost the battle, I would discard the EC with Ark. If I used Angel of the Lord, Ark would not be used that time, and the discard would be saved for the next battle. Then my brother informed me that even if I discarded an EC during the battle, that counted as a use of the Artifact. And there was Great Mourning (but not until a couple sets later).

This is how I've seen Ark played ever since that day, and I've always assumed 30 Pieces would work the same way. I for one would be happy if this was changed. Obviously if you won the battle by means other than discarding the opposing character, such as ignoring or returning to hand, then Ark/30P would trigger, discarding the character, whether you wanted to or not (since neither ability is optional). But I think it would greatly increase the usability of both arts if a discard during battle didn't trigger a use.

News:

Author Topic: Thirty pieces of silver (Read 3800 times)

TheHobbit13

Ironica

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13