Author Topic: the thankful leper (Read 6673 times)

Master KChief · « **on:** September 04, 2009, 07:32:21 PM »

The Thankful Leper
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 1 / 10 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search opponent's discard pile for all Lost Soul and put into his territory. Abilities on good gold brigade cards cannot be negated if opponent has less than ten cards in deck. • Attributes: Samaritan • Identifiers: NT Male Human, Samaria • Verse: Luke 17:15-16 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 12)

does this mean only numbers cannot be negated, or does it include special abilities as well?

TimMierz · « **Reply #1 on:** September 04, 2009, 07:36:23 PM »

REG:

"Abilities (numbers) are points of offensive strength (*/), and defensive toughness (/*) of a character or enhancement. The card’s abilities are listed in the icon box. See Anatomy of a Card."

A literal reading of the card says that TTL only preserves the numbers.

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #2 on:** September 04, 2009, 07:44:31 PM »

Can you negate a character's abilities in the first place? Aside from decreasers, the whole idea of negating numbers is nonexistent.

Master KChief · « **Reply #3 on:** September 04, 2009, 07:50:41 PM »

exactly. this card makes no sense at all.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #4 on:** September 04, 2009, 08:13:16 PM »

You can't negate character abilities, but you can negate enhancement abilities (effect = numbers + SA).

Master KChief · « **Reply #5 on:** September 04, 2009, 08:22:53 PM »

abilities = numbers
special abilities = text printed in art box

the thankful leper says abilities.

Bryon · « **Reply #6 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:09:19 PM »

Discard abilities is short for discard special abilities.

Capture abilities is short for capture special abilities.

Abilities can be short for special abilities.

DDiceRC · « **Reply #7 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:09:30 PM »

As written, you could negate the SA of a good gold card, but not its numbers. Some negate cards allow you to negate "the last card played" or some such. In those cases, the SA wouldn't work, but the numbers would stay in play.

At least, I think that's how it would work.

DDiceRC · « **Reply #8 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:11:12 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on September 04, 2009, 09:09:19 PM

Abilities can be short for special abilities.

I can accept that, but I doubt that some on these boards will. It "can" be short, but "is" it? (Or does it depends what you mean by "is"?

)

Master KChief · « **Reply #9 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:13:20 PM »

from the REG:

Abilities
Abilities (numbers) are points of offensive strength (*/), and defensive toughness (/*) of a character or enhancement. The card’s abilities are listed in the icon box.

Ability
When the word “ability” immediately follows a game term like “first strike” or “discard,” then “ability” is short for “special ability.” If the word “abilities” appears apart from other game terms, it refers only to a card’s numerical abilities (*/*).

'abilities' on thankful leper does not follow another game term. as written, only numbers cannot be negated.

Bryon · « **Reply #10 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:22:51 PM »

Perhaps the REG needs editing.

The way I see it, a card has numerical abilities and special abilities. Abilities includes all of those, unless specified otherwise.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #11 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:24:21 PM »

I think "ability" (singular) is normally (always?) sort for special ability, since numbers is defined as "abilities". (DoN, Gathering of Angels)

The definition of ability could use a little clarification, since there are some cards that modify ability after it rather than before it. (Wasting Disease)

"Abilities" on The Thankful Leper isn't modified anywhere, so as currently worded, it should only stop negation of the numbers.

Master KChief · « **Reply #12 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:40:05 PM »

...which cant be negated anyways.

unless, its meant to mean that when hes in battle, your opponent CAN negate numbers until you have 10 cards or less left in your deck.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #13 on:** September 04, 2009, 09:53:05 PM »

You can negate numbers (on enhancements) if you negate the entire card (negate the effect or negate the card). So your opponent could negate the SA of Battle Prayer with Unsuccessful, but the numbers would remain.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** September 04, 2009, 11:02:49 PM »

That stinks. Is this how it was meant to be played?

I have another question: Does Thankful Leper have an unwritten ability to check how many cards are in opponent's deck, or is that something you can just do anytime anyway?

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** September 04, 2009, 11:09:43 PM »

i believe hand size and deck size are common knowledge.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #16 on:** September 04, 2009, 11:13:50 PM »

Well then next time someone won't tell me how many cards are in their deck, I'll just count 'em up.

lightningninja · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2009, 02:16:02 AM »

I'm with Bryon on this one. I think it's obvious what the card was meant to do. I'm gonna say this nicely before Schaef gives the real deal.

Or when my opponent attacks with abiathar I'm gonna start playing Christian Martyr.

Bryon · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2009, 02:22:25 AM »

The abilities on a card include all types of abilities:

1) number abilities

AND

2) special abilities

Destruction of Nehushtan negates the "ability" on the artifact. Artifacts don't have number abilities. What if the artifact has two special abilities, or three? Does it only negate one? It means "abilities" and includes the special abilities.

Clearly, Ability/Abilities is used on some cards as an abbreviation for "number abilities and special abilities."

We know what The Thankful Leper is supposed to do, and we know what Destruction is supposed to do, and we all know that "abilities" is short for "special abilities" in many cases. So, let's all agree that it applies to all unless speecified otherwise. It is simple to clarify one definition in a REG.

Master KChief · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2009, 03:37:41 AM »

Quote from: lightningninja on September 05, 2009, 02:16:02 AM

I'm with Bryon on this one. I think it's obvious what the card was meant to do. I'm gonna say this nicely before Schaef gives the real deal.

theres a difference between what a card was 'meant to do' and what it says. see: split altar, goshen.

Quote

Or when my opponent attacks with abiathar I'm gonna start playing Christian Martyr.

the card clearly says discard abilities...in which 'abilities' does follow immediately after a game mechanic, and as per the REG means 'discard special abilities'.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2009, 07:27:48 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on September 05, 2009, 02:22:25 AM

We know what The Thankful Leper is supposed to do, and we know what Destruction is supposed to do, and we all know that "abilities" is short for "special abilities" in many cases. So, let's all agree that it applies to all unless speecified otherwise. It is simple to clarify one definition in a REG.

I agree. This is a more logical approach that will be easier to teach new players.

Now let the scavengers scour through every old card and see if this will break anything.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2009, 09:20:57 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on September 05, 2009, 07:27:48 AM

Now let the scavengers scour through every old card and see if this will break anything.

I don't know, would giving all your heroes CBN special abilities break anything?

I Am Sustainer -- Protect holder's Heroes from having their abilities reduced. Restore all of holder's Heroes to full abilities.

Under any standard definition removing something completely (negating it) is a form of reducing it.

Master KChief · « **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2009, 11:41:03 AM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on September 05, 2009, 07:27:48 AM

Quote from: Bryon on September 05, 2009, 02:22:25 AM
We know what The Thankful Leper is supposed to do, and we know what Destruction is supposed to do, and we all know that "abilities" is short for "special abilities" in many cases. So, let's all agree that it applies to all unless speecified otherwise. It is simple to clarify one definition in a REG.

I agree. This is a more logical approach that will be easier to teach new players.

Now let the scavengers scour through every old card and see if this will break anything.

actually, the more logical approach would be to stay consistent to the rules and REG. 'abilities' by itself has ALWAYS referred to just the numbers...for years.

Bryon · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2009, 12:38:47 PM »

Really? So you've NEVER negated the special ability on an artifact with Destruction?

Bryon · « **Reply #24 on:** September 05, 2009, 12:41:25 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on September 05, 2009, 09:20:57 AM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on September 05, 2009, 07:27:48 AM
Now let the scavengers scour through every old card and see if this will break anything.
I don't know, would giving all your heroes CBN special abilities break anything?

I Am Sustainer -- Protect holder's Heroes from having their abilities reduced. Restore all of holder's Heroes to full abilities.

Under any standard definition removing something completely (negating it) is a form of reducing it.

Is "Reduced" defined in Redemption? "Reduce" is a special ability that lowers the number abilities of a character, right?

News:

Author Topic: the thankful leper (Read 6673 times)