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Author Topic: Banding vs Herod's Treachery  (Read 2242 times)

Offline Master KChief

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Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« on: December 01, 2009, 10:38:28 PM »
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my opponent makes a rescue attempt with a hero. i block with an evil character, and band to his herod with herod's treachery placed on it. am i allowed to discard the herod's treachery on the evil character to force my opponents hero to withdraw?

Herod’s Treachery
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: Territory • Special Ability: Place on a Herod. That Herod may use evil Enhancements regardless of brigade. You may discard this card to force X Heroes to withdraw from battle. • Attributes: X = number of good brigades opponent has in play • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 2:8 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2009, 11:02:27 PM »
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This issue has been addressed so many times in numerous forms, so I think I have it down, and correct me if I'm wrong: "You" refers to the owner of the card, so if you are controlling his character, you cannot satisfy "you" conditions on his cards.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2009, 11:03:58 PM »
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i was under the impression 'your' refers to the owner of the card, 'you' refers to the holder of the card.
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2009, 11:05:14 PM »
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That may be... I don't know where this is in the REG.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2009, 11:06:34 PM »
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who knows where the REG is these days. :P
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2009, 11:41:37 PM »
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Banding to a Character does not give you control of "place" Enhancements that are placed on that Character (note that weapons are different than "place" Enhancements).  Only the owner of Herod's Treachery can discard it.  They don't even have to place it on their own Herod.  They could place it on yours if they want to.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 02:07:56 AM »
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Quote from: BrianGabe on December 01, 2009, 11:41:37 PM
Banding to a Character does not give you control of "place" Enhancements that are placed on that Character (note that weapons are different than "place" Enhancements).

why?
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Offline sk

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2009, 02:21:15 AM »
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REG > Glossary > Place
When a special ability instructs a player to place a card on a second card, the placed card remains with the second card until the second card is discarded, returned to the draw pile or hand, or until the placed card is removed by a special ability.

The 'you' is referring to the person that PLACED the card, not the person that controls the character.  Thus, even if the placer's opponent controls the character, they are not able to discard it, as only the card's owner is able to use the special ability to remove it.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2009, 02:25:35 AM »
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Quote from: sk on December 02, 2009, 02:21:15 AM
The 'you' is referring to the person that PLACED the card, not the person that controls the character.  Thus, even if the placer's opponent controls the character, they are not able to discard it, as only the card's owner is able to use the special ability to remove it.

where is your backing for this?
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Offline sk

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2009, 02:41:40 AM »
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"You may discard this card to force X Heroes to withdraw from battle."

It doesn't specify 'holder' (as cards like Coat of Mail do), so it seems to default to the person that placed it.  That seems to be who 'you' would be referring to as the card was being placed, and I see no reason it would dynamically change based on possession (unlike 'holder').

Of course, I'm pretty much guessing, as I can't find anything truely concrete in the current REG.  It sounds like 2.0 will explain place cards far better.
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Offline Master KChief

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2009, 02:55:17 AM »
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i can understand if it said 'your', as that implies possession. 'you', however, does not.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2009, 10:26:50 AM »
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Hey,

Placed cards are always controlled by the player that placed them, even if they are on a card that is controlled by another player.  Taking control of a card that is holding a placed card does not take control of the placed card.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2009, 11:26:42 AM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on December 02, 2009, 10:26:50 AM
Placed cards are always controlled by the player that placed them, even if they are on a card that is controlled by another player.  Taking control of a card that is holding a placed card does not take control of the placed card.

For completeness, what about in the case where you take ownership of the card that is holding a placed card?

Modifying (and correctly capitalizing ;) ) MKC's scenario to provide an example...

My opponent makes a rescue attempt with a hero. I block with Seven Wicked Spirits, and switch for his Herod with Herod's Treachery placed on it. Am I allowed to discard the Herod's Treachery on the evil character to force my opponents hero to withdraw?
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2009, 11:29:15 AM »
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No. Placed enhancements' ownership is calculated entirely independently of the card they're placed on.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2009, 11:32:17 AM »
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Hey,

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on December 02, 2009, 11:26:42 AM
Quote from: SirNobody on December 02, 2009, 10:26:50 AM
Placed cards are always controlled by the player that placed them, even if they are on a card that is controlled by another player.  Taking control of a card that is holding a placed card does not take control of the placed card.

For completeness, what about in the case where you take ownership of the card that is holding a placed card?

"Taking ownership" is just taking control of a card permanently.  And that is addressed above.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Banding vs Herod's Treachery
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2009, 05:23:25 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on December 02, 2009, 11:32:17 AM
Quote from: EmJayBee83 on December 02, 2009, 11:26:42 AM
Quote from: SirNobody on December 02, 2009, 10:26:50 AM
Placed cards are always controlled by the player that placed them, even if they are on a card that is controlled by another player.  Taking control of a card that is holding a placed card does not take control of the placed card.

For completeness, what about in the case where you take ownership of the card that is holding a placed card?

"Taking ownership" is just taking control of a card permanently.  And that is addressed above.

Tschanks.
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