Author Topic: The Magi (Read 5497 times)

Aelec Enitnel · « **on:** April 30, 2011, 07:30:18 PM »

I want to know if the Magi could be considered magicians for the sake of magic charms.
Two reasons why they should be magicians are
1. There is no getting around the fact that they are astrologers, and the babylonian Astrologers have part pale green and are magicians.
2. (the lesser reason) Their name comes from the word Magic.

JSB23 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:35:25 PM »

Don't even try,
I argued this for six pages a few months ago.
The magi aren't magicians because they visited Jesus so they can't be evil

browarod · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:36:18 PM »

The Elders decided to rule "Magician" as only an evil identifier. If one of the pale green magicians is converted, it loses the identifier.

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:38:50 PM »

Really?
Well, nice to know.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:50:10 PM »

Yup - I'll go find the thread and link it, but the gist of the matter is that Magicians in redemption are people or groups of people who use any source that isn't God to create 'Miracles'

Aelec Enitnel · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:58:05 PM »

Okay, sweet.

spicynumber1 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2011, 02:44:54 PM »

Can you activate magic charms on your captured magician?

browarod · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:16:47 PM »

I think captured characters lose all identifiers except verse/testament, brigade, and gender.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:18:22 PM »

Am Slave isnt Egyptian in LoB?

browarod · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:27:54 PM »

There aren't any cards (that I can think of) that affect Egyptians in land of bondage, so I don't think that matters. But I have never heard of civilizations characters in LoB counting for "# of your <civilization>s" so I would assume they lose it (or it somehow otherwise doesn't count).

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:40:05 PM »

Pithom (P)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Each time an opponent plays a Dominant, if you have an Egyptian in play, discard the top card of his deck or place a good card in his territory beneath deck. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Exodus 1:11 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Local Tournament)

browarod · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:58:56 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on May 01, 2011, 03:40:05 PM

Pithom (P)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Each time an opponent plays a Dominant, if you have an Egyptian in play, discard the top card of his deck or place a good card in his territory beneath deck. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Exodus 1:11 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Local Tournament)

Quote from: browarod on May 01, 2011, 03:27:54 PM

There aren't any cards (that I can think of) that affect Egyptians in land of bondage, so I don't think that matters. But I have never heard of civilizations characters in LoB counting for "# of your <civilization>s" so I would assume they lose it (or it somehow otherwise doesn't count).

I already answered that. As far as I know, civilizations don't count on captured characters, whether that's because they lose the identifier when captured or some other reason I don't know. Ofc, I could be wrong.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:01:18 PM »

Can I get elder confirmation on that one? I thought they kept identifiers.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:51:37 PM »

They do. The only thing captured characters lose is card type.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2011, 06:57:39 PM »

Although I believe Pol is correct in general, what about the "magician" identifier (or any other identifier tied to alignment)?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2011, 07:04:43 PM »

Captured EC's are still evil.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2011, 08:50:40 PM »

Quote from: spicynumber1 on May 01, 2011, 02:44:54 PM

Can you activate magic charms on your captured magician?

browarod · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:01:42 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on May 01, 2011, 08:50:40 PM

Quote from: spicynumber1 on May 01, 2011, 02:44:54 PM
Can you activate magic charms on your captured magician?

And that's exactly why I believe Pol is incorrect.

We could really use an elder or three. >_<

Gabe · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:09:50 PM »

Quote from: spicynumber1 on May 01, 2011, 02:44:54 PM

Can you activate magic charms on your captured magician?

If your captured magician is in your land of bondage I can't think of any reason this doesn't work. It doesn't seem right and I could be overlooking something, but off hand I'd say it's a legal play. But if your captured magician is in your opponent's land of bondage it doesn't meet the "your" requirement of own + control so you cannot active charms on it.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 01, 2011, 06:51:37 PM

They do. The only thing captured characters lose is card type.

Pol is correct, except that they also lose their brigade. They retain their identifiers.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 01, 2011, 07:04:43 PM

Captured EC's are still evil.

If they are in the Land of Bondage then captured characters are treated as Lost Souls so they are not evil, nor good, they are neutral. If they are placed in Raider's Camp then they are still Heroes.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 01, 2011, 06:57:39 PM

Although I believe Pol is correct in general, what about the "magician" identifier (or any other identifier tied to alignment)?

I can't think of any identifier except "Magician", "Demon" and "Angel" that are alignment specific. To my knowledge the identifier is retained when they are captured.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:15:19 PM »

I'm confused by your post Gabe. If Magician is an evil identifier, and characters treated as Lost Souls are neutral, then how can there be a Magician in a Land of Bondage?

Gabe · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:24:42 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on May 01, 2011, 09:15:19 PM

I'm confused by your post Gabe. If Magician is an evil identifier, and characters treated as Lost Souls are neutral, then how can there be a Magician in a Land of Bondage?

The only ruling that I've ever heard is that Magician is not a good identifier, or that Heroes cannot be magicians or something like that. It's one of those unwritten rules (which I like less than you).

I mentioned the three identifiers I recall that are associated with alignment, Angel, Demon and Magician. I can have a captured Angel. I can have a captured Demon who cannot be redeemed (ducks rotten tomatoes from SQF). I don't see any reason I cannot have a captured magician.

browarod · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:44:32 PM »

Because then you could activate MC on it.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:24:58 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on May 01, 2011, 09:24:42 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on May 01, 2011, 09:15:19 PM
I'm confused by your post Gabe. If Magician is an evil identifier, and characters treated as Lost Souls are neutral, then how can there be a Magician in a Land of Bondage?

The only ruling that I've ever heard is that Magician is not a good identifier, or that Heroes cannot be magicians or something like that. It's one of those unwritten rules (which I like less than you).

I mentioned the three identifiers I recall that are associated with alignment, Angel, Demon and Magician. I can have a captured Angel. I can have a captured Demon who cannot be redeemed (ducks rotten tomatoes from SQF). I don't see any reason I cannot have a captured magician.

Maybe the problem is the status quo. Perhaps a captured angel is no longer an angel (good alignment), and a captured demon is no longer a demon (evil alignment). They are just spiritual beings waiting for a rescue or release (neutral alignment). A neutral Egyptian makes sense realistically. However, if an angel is treated as a Lost Soul, then it no longer meets the definition of an angel.

There may be hope for SQF after all.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2011, 11:03:32 PM »

Quote from: Gabe on May 01, 2011, 09:24:42 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on May 01, 2011, 09:15:19 PM
I'm confused by your post Gabe. If Magician is an evil identifier, and characters treated as Lost Souls are neutral, then how can there be a Magician in a Land of Bondage?

The only ruling that I've ever heard is that Magician is not a good identifier, or that Heroes cannot be magicians or something like that. It's one of those unwritten rules (which I like less than you).

I mentioned the three identifiers I recall that are associated with alignment, Angel, Demon and Magician. I can have a captured Angel. I can have a captured Demon who cannot be redeemed (ducks rotten tomatoes from SQF). I don't see any reason I cannot have a captured magician.

Bryon has ruled previously that a "captured human" is no more a human than a "horse apple" is an apple. (For example, you are not allowed to discard a "captured human" to satisfy Arioch's SA.) So, I guess my question is whether a "captured magician" is still a magician? If so, what is the distinction between the magician identifier and the human identifier?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:12:25 AM »

That's incorrect. The ruling was that a capture Hero is no longer a Hero. That matches up with what Gabe and I have been saying.

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Author Topic: The Magi (Read 5497 times)

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