Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Smokey on August 10, 2009, 05:29:08 PM
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If I have The Gates of Hell active, and I make a RA, can I discard it to add my demon to my opponents side of the battle?
I'm thinking it doesn't work, I just want a second opinion.
The Gates of Hell
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add your demon to the battle. • Attributes: Plays to set-aside area • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 16:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs
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I don't see why not. Cool idea.
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I suggest using it in MN.
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NEVER!
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Anyone have any proof either way about this or are we just going off the wording of it?
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I think it works, because we already know that Add to Battle is the same as Banding. We also already know that your ECs can be banded into battle against you. The card doesn't say that it has to be while your Opponent's hero is in battle or anything, so I can't think of a reason why it SHOULDN'T work at this point.
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You would have to add it to the opposing side of the battle. I don't think it is a legal play because your opponent is the one who has choice of which Evil Character to add to the battle, not you.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure this works.
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The Gates of Hell allows you to add a character to your side of the battle. If you're making a RA or BC with a Hero in battle you cannot add an evil Character to battle to fight with them. Nowhere does TGoH say anything about choosing the blocker or adding a character to the opponent's side of the battle.
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It also doesn't specify YOUR side of the battle... I'd like to get an official word on this, cause a few other strategies of mine rest on this.
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I agree, it's complete conjecture at this point to say that Gates of Hell adds a demon to your side of the battle. That's simply not on the card.
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I'm not aware of a situation where you band to an opponent's side of the battle without it actually saying "opponent's whatever bands to battle"
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I am, Gates of Hell. It's a new card, and all other cards with similar language specifically disallow doing what we are suggesting while this one does not.
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Ezekiel's Stick: "add one hero to battle." It doesn't specify your opponent's character, but you can band to your opponent's heroes nontheless.
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The Silver Trumpets:
When your Priest has initiative during a rescue attempt, you may band a human O.T. Hero from your territory into battle or interrupt the battle and return your Heroes in battle to hand. May be used twice.
I'm pretty sure this was discussed with regards to The Silver Trumpets and the answer was you couldn't band an OT Hero to your opponent's side of battle if your evil Priest had initiative.
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If that was the case, a Errata would be necessary because it seems obvious IMO that it can with the printed words.
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"Add to battle" is a form of banding. It is not associated with choose the blocker.
Looking at the banding section of the REG, is see it does not explicitly state the default condition for which characters (good or evil) you may band. It should have a default condition that requires banding to apply to characters being added to your side of the battle (unless stated otherwise - see "Siege"). We have understood this to be true, but it isn't in print.
Mike
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The Silver Trumpets:
When your Priest has initiative during a rescue attempt, you may band a human O.T. Hero from your territory into battle or interrupt the battle and return your Heroes in battle to hand. May be used twice.
I'm pretty sure this was discussed with regards to The Silver Trumpets and the answer was you couldn't band an OT Hero to your opponent's side of battle if your evil Priest had initiative.
The bolded txt tells all.
"Add to battle" is a form of banding. It is not associated with choose the blocker.
Looking at the banding section of the REG, is see it does not explicitly state the default condition for which characters (good or evil) you may band. It should have a default condition that requires banding to apply to characters being added to your side of the battle (unless stated otherwise - see "Siege"). We have understood this to be true, but it isn't in print.
Mike
Because it isn't in print does that mean it's legal at the moment? :P
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I would be very surprised if it isn't mentioned somewhere in the rulebook. You may look it up. I know you can't band your characters to your opponent's side. Think about it - you do it and likely never lose initiative. Who would play with those rules?
Mike
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Instant Abilities > Band > How to Use
Players may band to any opponent’s character(s) unless the opponent’s cards are protected from being brought into battle (e.g., Wall of Protection). The player bringing in the additional characters is referred to as the holder and retains control until the end of battle.
This quote would seem to indicate that you cannot band onto the opposition's side, since you cannot control that character.
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I do not feel this works either. Im all for sweet combos but...
When a player uses a banding ability, they are adding characters to THEIR side. If they add characters to the opponents side, then it is a Choose the Blocker ability.
It really isnt that confusing. Band = add to your side. CTB/R = add to opponents side.
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I honestly could see arguments for both sides but I would agree with the idea that you can not add a demon to your opponents blocking. If you could I would say that your opponent can still choose to block with a character of their choice but once again I don't see this being in agreement with the basic rules of the game.
Plus how unfair would it be if your had Prince of this World put in the battle and you had a single hero for the start of the battle. Then as you were about to lose inititive you pulled another demon out like Thief which would give you even more initive, and so on and so on. You could sit and play enhancements for a while as long as you kept adding demons. Then finish it of with something like David's Music to put them all back......Hmmmm maybe I want to change my thoughts on the ruling LOL ;)
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so is the darkness the one exception because it says , 'oppenent may band into battle'?
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I agree with everyone else that you can't get a "choose the blocker" ability without using a card that is a "choose the blocker" card.
Like anyone would try to do that. Like with "Doubt". Like trying to break TEAMS. Like you know who you are :)
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so is the darkness the one exception because it says , 'oppenent may band into battle'?
More specifically it says "Blocking player may add it to battle," but you are correct that is why it is an exception.
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I agree with everyone else that you can't get a "choose the blocker" ability without using a card that is a "choose the blocker" card.
Like anyone would try to do that. Like with "Doubt". Like trying to break TEAMS. Like you know who you are :)
No where on The Gates of Hell does it say anything about choosing the blocker, so I agree with you... I just thought it might be possible to add a character to the other character(s) in battle on your opponents side, but according to YMT's Rulebook quote that aparently cannot be done.
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I am, Gates of Hell.
So basically, you're acknowledging that you have no precedent for this.
It's a new card, and all other cards with similar language specifically disallow doing what we are suggesting while this one does not.
Unknown Nation specifically disallows this?
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I am, Gates of Hell.
So basically, you're acknowledging that you have no precedent for this.
Actually, no. The comma was a typo. He is acknowledging that he has turned to the Dark Side. :maul:
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Unknown Nation specifically disallows this?
Technically yeah. Your opponent's hero can never be in battle during your rescue attempt, because of the whole "opponent's=opponent-owned+opponent-controlled. At least from how I understand that.
However, as Aggie pointed out, The Silver Trumpets was ruled a long time ago that you couldn't band your hero to your opponent's hero when your evil Priest has initiative, even though TST doesn't specifically disallow it.