Author Topic: The Garden Tomb?? (Read 3761 times)

SJSharks · « **on:** March 14, 2009, 05:56:31 PM »

The ability on The Garden Tomb says:

Quote

Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If opponent has a redeemed Lost Soul, then Salome, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Peter, John, and Mary the mother of James ignore all evil brigades that do not have at least two Characters in play. • Attributes: Empty! • Identifiers: NT, Empty! • Verse: Mark 16:1 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 19)

The REG defines opponent as:

Quote

Opponent

An opponent is any other player in the game. However, the word opponent can be specific or general: “Opponent”, “your opponent’”, or “opponent's” means the other player whose character is fighting your character in battle. However, “an opponent”, “any opponent”, “one opponent”, “opponents' ”, or “each opponent” is any player in the game other than you.

Since before an opponent blocks your rescue attempt there is no "other player whose character is fighting your character in battle", opponent in regards to The Garden Tomb is undefined, and the condition on The Garden Tomb is not met.

Shouldn't the opponent then be able to present a blocker before they are ignored?

The Schaef · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2009, 06:40:07 PM »

If you begin a battle against another player, that IS the "other player" who will be "fighting your character in battle".

Don't lose yourself in wordsmithing. The only distinction being made here is between "an" opponent, which is any other player, and "your opponent" which is the one-on-one opponent in a battle. The presence of characters is not the defining characteristic.

crustpope · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:22:01 PM »

I have another question about the garden tomb and this came up today.

TGT says that:

Quote

Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If opponent has a redeemed Lost Soul, then Salome, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Peter, John, and Mary the mother of James ignore all evil brigades that do not have at least two Characters in play. • Attributes: Empty! • Identifiers: NT, Empty! • Verse: Mark 16:1 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 19)

Is this aspect of TGT limited to what the opponent has in play or is it more general to include all characters in play? in a Multi-player game, it is going to be harder to use TGT because there are likely to be a greater selection of EC's

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:23:34 PM »

It includes ALL ECs in play. It includes all players, including yourself.

crustpope · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:27:31 PM »

So basically if anyone has self in KotW then any other EC can block because that would mean that there are at least two of that brigade in play.

Man, TGT is getting easier and easier to beat

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2009, 11:31:53 PM »

correct if the EC is already in play.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2009, 08:36:24 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on March 16, 2009, 08:26:53 PM

what he is asking is, if you present trembling demon ok? and sence trembling says. if ther are no good enhancments played this battle. then wouldnt the battle end? and... trembling demon lives?

What?

I never saw Trembling Demon brought up in this thread until you posted. Thats not even close to what he asked.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2009, 10:39:05 PM »

Spam alert. That has nothing to do with the thread, and is therefore spam.

Quote

Man, TGT is getting easier and easier to beat

That's what I though until I picked up Woman as Snares.

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:08:29 AM »

Yeah, Women as Snares is a pesky card. The Assyrians and Egyptians have little to worry about, but most other defenses are not happy with that card.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:04:05 AM »

Quote from: the musicain on March 17, 2009, 10:43:06 AM

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on March 16, 2009, 10:39:05 PM
Spam alert. That has nothing to do with the thread, and is therefore spam.

Quote
Man, TGT is getting easier and easier to beat
That's what I though until I picked up Woman as Snares.

sorry i didnt know that was spam. $:-\$ but can you do that with trembling demon?? it kinda makes sence... in a way. cause no good enh is played then wouldnt the battle end?

when you post a random thought which has no connection to the thread, yes, that is the very definition of spam.

Yes, if no good enhancements are played (and HoH is up or opponent doesn't d/c) then TD dies and no LS is rescued.

The Schaef · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:04:38 AM »

It doesn't say no good Enhancements CAN be played, it says to protect Lost Souls IF no good Enhancements are played for the entire battle. The idea is that if the demon is losing, he can just die and give you no point. If you have to pass initiative to the rescuer, though, or if they have something to sacrifice from hand, they have an opportunity to open the souls back up.

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:14:50 PM »

Trembling Demon cannot block if he's being ignored.

Quote from: REG

If a character is ignored, it can neither voluntarily nor forcibly enter the Field of Battle

The Schaef · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:16:09 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on March 17, 2009, 12:08:47 PM

SJsharks enters battle with salome i block with trembling demon ok? but sence thers not any good enh played in that battle cause trembling demon is being ignored. wouldnt it make it to wher no lost souls are rescued? and trembling demon doesnt die because he goes back to teritory sence he is being ignored?

If Trembling Demon is ignored by Salome, he cannot enter battle in the first place.

If there is a way to band in an ignoring character after the block, without playing an Enhancement, then your scenario would work, Trembling Demon would return safely to territory and the Lost Souls would be protected.

The Schaef · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:17:50 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on March 17, 2009, 12:16:30 PM

but you cant be ignored untill you enter battle. cause abilitys dont activate till you do enter battle right?

Yes you can be ignored before you are in battle. The rules state that an ignored character is not allowed to enter battle. YOUR ignore ability can activate when YOU enter battle, and ignore me before I enter battle, my ability has nothing to do with your ignore.

crustpope · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:23:13 PM »

Think of it like Three nails. Three nails is an artifact that says no demons may block. another way of saying that is that Demons are ignored. If the hero ignores a certaing group of EC's they basically prevent them from blocking. since the SA that lets them ignore is active before they enter battle then they basically prevent all EC's from that category from entering battle just like Three nails prevents demons from blocking heroes.

TGT is just another ignore wrinkle but there are a LOT of of ways aroung TGT. blockign with an ignored character just isnt one of them

SJSharks · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:52:51 PM »

What the musicain is trying to get at is that if my original point was valid, and we took the REG quote literally instead of guessing at the intent of the rule, then there would be no "other player whose character is fighting your character in battle" and the condition of The Garden Tomb would not be met until the evil character entered battle. If this were true the musicain is correct you could block with Trembling Demon before he is ignored, his ability would activate and he would leave battle unharmed, but since my original point was already rejected then the musicain's point is irrelevant.

The Schaef · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:39:04 PM »

There's no need to guess at intent here at all.

REG entry for ignore:
If a character is ignored, it can neither voluntarily nor forcibly enter the Field of Battle.

The definition of opponent only draws a distinction between a single specific opponent, or any/all opponent(s). If we extrapolated that to make it so that there was no opponent unless and until both sides had someone in battle, ignore wold not work the way it works, and pretty much any Hero ability that specifies the opponent you're fighting would do anything at all. And that just doesn't make sense.

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Author Topic: The Garden Tomb?? (Read 3761 times)

SJSharks

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