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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: JDS on August 29, 2010, 07:44:06 PM

Title: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: JDS on August 29, 2010, 07:44:06 PM
Thaddeus: Protect all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less. Cannot be interrupted.

Does Thaddeus protect from enhancements used by ECs?
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 29, 2010, 11:04:40 PM
Yes. Any card that is protected from another player or character is protected from all the cards he uses.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: TheJaylor on August 29, 2010, 11:09:33 PM
That's why Thad is a great card to use in Speed/Disciples decks.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 29, 2010, 11:10:32 PM
Thaddeus' ability is even better than pre-block ignore.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 29, 2010, 11:44:45 PM
Actually, I'm not certain it DOES.

You are protected from the specific card it targets, not the cards played on him.

Protect is not the exact same thing as immunity.

I really hope enhancements still work, that'd bump his overpoweredness down quite a few notches.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Red on August 30, 2010, 07:42:07 AM
Lambo you're wrong unless I can ACIB Red Dragon with  Salome.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Master_Chi on August 30, 2010, 10:27:02 AM
I would say no, since it just says "EC's with toughness..." and nothing about doms/enhancements.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on August 30, 2010, 12:15:41 PM
I would agree that enhancements can't touch Thad mah boi.

EDIT: I'm also -1/+ 1'ing people so everyone's post is 0 (or as close as I can make it to 0) for no other reason then my OCD.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 30, 2010, 12:19:34 PM
Lambo you're wrong unless I can ACIB Red Dragon with  Salome.

Please re-read my statement:

Protect is not the exact same thing as immunity.

However, re-reading the current REG, it is actually kinda confusing.

Immune and protect are given two seperate sections, but this is listed under protect:

•      The phrases “immune to”, “ignores”, “cannot be”, “may not be”, “may only be _____ by”, “must be _____ by”, “no _____ may be, “prevented from being”, “protected from”, and “protect” have the same function.

I'm sure thats either poorly worded, or outdated, because I know for a FACT "Ignores" works very differently than everything else in that list.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on August 30, 2010, 12:22:47 PM
It was last updated in '07. Seems legit imo.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Professoralstad on August 30, 2010, 12:47:29 PM
Immune and protect are given two seperate sections, but this is listed under protect:

•      The phrases “immune to”, “ignores”, “cannot be”, “may not be”, “may only be _____ by”, “must be _____ by”, “no _____ may be, “prevented from being”, “protected from”, and “protect” have the same function.

I'm sure thats either poorly worded, or outdated, because I know for a FACT "Ignores" works very differently than everything else in that list.

That section of the REG is horribly outdated, and has been said to be so for awhile in various situations. The way I see it is thus: Immunity is a special type of protection that is specific to characters. That is, characters can be immune, but enhancements, fortresses, Artifacts, etc. cannot be. All cards can be protected from various things, but in a majority of cases (Thaddeus and Protection of Angels are two exceptions I can think of) Protect is restricted to being protected from effects of special abilities. So a Hero would say "Immune to Black Evil characters", but "Protected from discard abilities on Black cards" in various situations. In either case, the Hero could not be harmed by Wrath of Satan played on Fallen Warrior. I'm not sure why Thaddeus didn't follow the usual trend, and say something like "Protect everything from special abilities used by */<X Evil Characters" but I would say that his Protection functions more like immunity when applied to characters, and protection when applied to everything else.

That said, I would have to rule that Thaddeus protects everything from enhancements used by */<X EC's as well, as much as it pains me to do so. 
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: JDS on August 30, 2010, 01:03:55 PM
I would say the big difference between an "immune" character and a "protected" character is that the protected character can still lose by numbers.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Professoralstad on August 30, 2010, 01:05:58 PM
I would say the big difference between an "immune" character and a "protected" character is that the protected character can still lose by numbers.

That has been ruled to NOT be the case for Protection of Angels. A Hero who plays that and is losing BTN would be in a stalemate, much like immunity. If Protection and immunity are clarified in the next REG (which I assume will happen) that ruling may change.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Daniel TS RED on August 30, 2010, 01:09:55 PM
So Thad is basically unstoppable?

Daniel

 :o
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: TheJaylor on August 30, 2010, 01:18:55 PM
If you play with enough disciples yes with the exception preventing his ability with CoM or something like that.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 30, 2010, 01:26:28 PM
I would say the big difference between an "immune" character and a "protected" character is that the protected character can still lose by numbers.

That has been ruled to NOT be the case for Protection of Angels. A Hero who plays that and is losing BTN would be in a stalemate, much like immunity. If Protection and immunity are clarified in the next REG (which I assume will happen) that ruling may change.

You would know better than I Professor A - but i was under the impression that a Protection of Angels guy did die BTN's...ill try to find it.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Professoralstad on August 30, 2010, 01:32:58 PM
So Thad is basically unstoppable?

Daniel

 :o


Christian Martyr, Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, any of several cards that prevent Hero SA's (Confusion of Mind, Destructive Sin, Peter's Curse, Image of Jealousy), Satan's Seat (which might see more play due to the prevalence of Thaddeus and Job), and EC's with high numbers (the new Strong Demon especially) can all stop him. But yeah, with enough Disciples out, he can be quite the brute. The nice thing is that he needs a bunch of Disciples to be good, so it's not likely he'll be in many splash decks. I guess we'll see how it pans out in the end.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 30, 2010, 01:55:37 PM
I still think simply being protected from a card shouldn't stop it from beating you by the numbers. Otherwise, theres no reason to split protect and immunity, because they're the exact same thing.

Quote from:  REG
Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities and is related to cards that specify “cannot be” or “may not be” (see Cannot be in the glossary).  Protected cards cannot be targeted for harm.  Cards that protect give an ability like immune to the cards they protect (see Immune).

It only says protected from special abilities. Protect stops targeting, Immune stops numbers and targeting, and Ignore is its own little world of rules.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: TheJaylor on August 30, 2010, 02:27:46 PM
It should protect by the numbers or at least it does because you are protected from their numbers as well.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 30, 2010, 02:29:30 PM
protect only protects from special abilities.

who just -1'd me?
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: DDiceRC on August 30, 2010, 03:28:41 PM
As per current REG definition (emphasis on the current; who knows what will happen?):

Protect

Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified spe­cial abilities.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: juhnkect on August 30, 2010, 05:37:33 PM
If thaddeus' protect ability is ruled to include enhancements it just ruined the game for me.

The fact his SA cannot be interupted, virtually means it is CBN right?

because Negation works from phase to phase...

The hero going into battle starts the battle phase.. so if he starts the battle phase being uninteruptable... he is therefore CBN. correct?



If enhancements don't work against Thaddeus, it just broke the game. because there is no way around it, he protects everything.

and CM does nothing with all the new DI protect/heal cards.

I don't whine much... but.. c'mon..
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: BubbleBoy on August 30, 2010, 07:03:32 PM
Confusion of Mind prevents his ability. He can also be taken care of with CM, Unholy Writ, Magic Charms, and any other non-EC/EE card.
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: Daniel TS RED on August 30, 2010, 07:06:57 PM
His SA only works though with more disciples right?  I guess by himself he "ignores" /1's.  So you need out 5 other disciples just to "ignore" /6 ECs or less.  So if you block with a /7 guy, his sa is pretty much worthless right?

Daniel

 ;D
Title: Re: Thaddeus Protect Question
Post by: RTSmaniac on August 31, 2010, 12:20:17 AM
the glass is half-FULL people. say it with me.  ;D
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