Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Say a type of card is protected from removal from the game. If such cards are in a discard pile and the pile is removed, are they protected from it? Does it matter if the ability removes a whole discard pile (like Ashtaroth Worship) or individually targeted cards (like Wonders Forgotten)?
Also, what if the removal is insteaded (like Obadiah's Caves)?

Thank you!

But it has to specify the discard pile?
The Caves example was assuming that there was no protection of the heroes, just the instead. Still, it doesn't matter as it doesn't specify discard.

So, just to clarify, if Isaiah and Isaiah's Call are in my discard pile and I have Book of the Law and Obadiah's Caves in play, and my opponent plays Ashtaroth Worship, Isaiah would be removed (since Caves doesn't specify discard) but Call wouldn't (since Book does)?

Browarod is mostly correct, but Obadiah's Caves DOES work if removed from discard.

Caves is an instead, not a protect.  Protect defaults to play, but instead can trigger from anywhere unless it is more specific (see Chamber of Angels + discarding angels from deck).

So, in the examples you gave, Book of the Law would protect from removal, meaning that they could not be targeted (which is true whether they are targeted individually or as part of the whole pile).  Obadiah's Caves would instead the removal of any prophets, no matter where they were, and place them on the fortress; the removal never technically took place, and the prophets are now instead on Caves.

Now I kinda wanna build a prophets offense and use Caves+Ashtaroth Worship to get back all my heroes...

Another question of this, if I had covenant of Eden in, and my prophets in play were removed from the game could I instead of discarding them place them in Obadiah's caves?

Good question.  The official rule on multiple cards triggering for the same effect at the same time is that the first one active (or active the longest) is the one which kicks in.  Depending on the way artifact activation is interpreted, either it is Caves that is 'longest active' every turn after the one it is played or it is whichever has been face up the longest.  The argument for the first rests on the fact that artifact activation occurs every turn; that is, the Covenant would 'reactivate' each turn, while Caves is 'continually' active.  The argument for the second would state that if the artifact was never 'deactivated', then it was continuously active as well.

From my position, I take the first approach: that Caves is active longer if it was in play prior to any 'reactivation' of Covenant.  However, there is no hard and fast rule to fall back on, since we do not even have the 'first active rule' documented.

So, in short, only one works; the question is, which one.

I wouldn't call this an official ruling (more of a proposal), but would it make sense to say that if multiple "insteads" are triggered, the player controlling the "insteaded" card chooses which goes first? (Much like the multiple characters being banded into battle concept.)

I think that you can lump triggers and insteads together, and that if multiple abilities would go off for the same effect, all controlled by the same player, they should be able to choose the order ('should' being key because we have not had it ruled that way).

It is possible, for example, to control Tartaros and Wandering Spirit at the same time, and chump block to trigger both at the same time.  I should be able to choose the result.

The real problem comes in when that is reversed (other player has Tartaros) where you have Kir, I have The Throne of David, and I choose your blocker for you.  Both trigger at the same time (once the character has 'blocked'), so which goes first?  We need a hard and fast rule, as none is actually documented (there are just posts like these).