Author Topic: Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword  (Read 1004 times)

Offline Watchman

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Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword
« on: March 17, 2019, 07:16:48 PM »
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I want to verify something. I play Temple Guard (RoJ) that’s equipped with Ish’s Sword, and I play a capture enh off of TG’s play ability, causing SI for my opponent, and my opponent negates it. At this point Ish’s Sword would activate since all other abilities are completed. I’m assuming Ish’s Sword would negate the last good card in battle PRIOR to TG’s play ability, perhaps the hero’s special ability, since Ish’s Sword activated but was pending upon completion of the other abilities.

Is this correct?
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Offline Josh

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Re: Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 10:29:40 PM »
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I want to verify something. I play Temple Guard (RoJ) that’s equipped with Ish’s Sword, and I play a capture enh off of TG’s play ability, causing SI for my opponent, and my opponent negates it. At this point Ish’s Sword would activate since all other abilities are completed. I’m assuming Ish’s Sword would negate the last good card in battle PRIOR to TG’s play ability, perhaps the hero’s special ability, since Ish’s Sword activated but was pending upon completion of the other abilities.

Is this correct?

I haven't looked at the REG recently, but I'm pretty sure abilities that add cards to battle (banding, Play abilities, Choose the Blocker) always go last.  Meaning, Ishbibenob's Sword activates before you play a capture EE.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 11:01:59 PM »
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Ishbibenob's Sword will negate the last card the opponent played at the time the weapon completes. In the example provided it sounds like that was the negate which targeted your capture ability. Then the opponent will get SI again.

Supporting documentation below. Relevant portions bolded.

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Play
A card is considered “played” if it meets these criteria:
You play an Enhancement when it is used by a character, unless it is being used by a character in battle because the previous character to use it has been removed from battle.

Quote from: REG>Ability Activation Order
Whenever a character (or group of characters) are played in battle:
1. Verify the rescuing/taunting/attacking/blocking/defending status of the characters in battle and the players involved in the battle.
2. Activate all abilities in the order written on the card EXCEPT those with effects that add a character to a battle.
3. Activate all gained abilities in the order gained EXCEPT those with effects that add a character to a battle.
4. Activate all abilities on any equipped weapons EXCEPT those with effects that add a character to a battle.
5. Activate all abilities with effects that add a character to the same side of battle. This includes steps 1-5 for all new characters added to battle, in the order added.
6. Verify the begins a battle/blocked status of the characters that are/were in battle and the players involved in the battle.
7. Activate all abilities with effects that add a character to the opposite side of battle. This includes steps 1-7 for all new characters added to battle, in the order added.
8. Activate all abilities with side battle effects. This includes steps 1-8 for all new characters added to a battle, in the order added.
9. Activate all pending abilities with triggered effects, following the order provided in the definition of triggered effect abilities.

Quote from: REG>Glossary>Special Initiative
When a player is controlling character(s) in battle and a completing effect of an opponent’s ability, or a game rule that has been triggered by an effect of an opponent’s ability, would leave that player with no character in battle when the effect has completed, they have Special Initiative.

When this occurs, suspend the card causing the removal and additional abilities or effects waiting to activate (currently active ongoing abilities remain active). The player with their character(s) being removed has the opportunity to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate both the effect causing the removal (or that triggered the corresponding game rule) and the ability containing that effect. If the card with the removing effect was already removed from play due to one of its effects, it may still be targeted during Special Initiative by an Enhancement that specifically targets its card type.

This only occurs once per completion of an effect of an opponent’s ability. If a removing effect is negated (or cannot reactivate after an interrupt effect is played) and the negate (or interrupt effect that prevented reactivation) is later undone such that the original removing effect reactivates, this would trigger a separate instance of Special Initiative.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 11:04:23 PM by Gabe »
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 11:28:39 PM »
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But an equipped weapon activates the moment it enters battle; however, its ability may not complete right away due to its ability being in the queue and waiting its turn to activate. My argument is that once it activates upon entering battle it immediately targets the last good card played in that battle but is waiting to complete once the other priority of abilities completes.

In the quotes you cited I’m not seeing how they support the argument that Ish’s Sword would negate the negating good enh.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Temple Guard equipped with Ish’s Sword
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 11:43:08 PM »
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But an equipped weapon activates the moment it enters battle; however, its ability may not complete right away due to its ability being in the queue and waiting its turn to activate. My argument is that once it activates upon entering battle it immediately targets the last good card played in that battle but is waiting to complete once the other priority of abilities completes.

In the quotes you cited I’m not seeing how they support the argument that Ish’s Sword would negate the negating good enh.

I'm pretty sure in Redemption, once an instant ability activates it immediately completes (barring Special Initiative or delayed triggered ones, which are sort of ongoing). So when a character enters battle you go through each ability sequentially and no targeting happens until it's the ability's turn to activate.
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