Author Topic: TAS and the FBTN LS (Read 3629 times)

Gabe · « **on:** April 17, 2011, 09:06:08 PM »

The FBTN LS is in play. I block with The Amalekite's Slave and use it's ability to add an Evil Character to battle.

Does the FBTN LS negate TAS once it becomes a LS?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:08:48 PM »

I knew there was a reason that I liked that card.

I think that it does.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:10:01 PM »

It better not otherwise that is a loop. I don't know if this is a rule, but you could say that characters have no abilities when they are treated as lost souls.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:12:23 PM »

Seems like it would just make it a non-SA'd LS. Seems like it would mess up Peter though when he's captured.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:38:34 PM »

Ignore my last post, I don't think I had my logic quite right there.... I still don't think it creates a loop per-say.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:40:17 PM »

BTN lost soul negates lost souls. TAS is a character. TAS ability activates when he is a character. A hero that is taken prisoner is treated as a captured hero, technically a lost soul, but not the exact same thing. I would say TAS ability is his SA as an EC, not a lost soul. It would make sense for the btn lost soul to not negate his ability, because he is an EC, not a lost soul. But at the same time he is a lost soul, so I can see this going either way. But I would argue that a character being treated as a lost soul is just that, it can be redeemed, or returned, but it has no ability.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2011, 09:51:50 PM »

I could see this work as RDT or Mr.H explain. That's why I posted the question. Both seem logical. I have not dug through the REG but I'm fairly familiar with it and I don't know of anything that explains this in my mind.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:00:27 PM »

Regardless, it wouldn't be a loop if FBTN soul negated TAS.

He would just go back to battle with his SA negated, and the exchanged EC would go back.

Thats my take.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:03:58 PM »

Right - That was my logic from earlier - But I'm not 100% sold on it.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:37:27 PM »

Well, I can see solid arguments for the following situations:

1. TAS is negated, the exchanged EC goes back into the deck, and TAS is left in battle.

2. TAS is not negated and all continues as normal.

No loop would happen, as that would require TAS's ability re-activating.

The Guardian · « **Reply #10 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:46:05 PM »

Negate LS is in play. I rescue with Gabriel and discard an enhancement from your deck. You block and play a card to capture Gabriel. Does his ability get negated and the enhancement go back to your deck? Intuitively I say no, ergo the same applies to TAS.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #11 on:** April 17, 2011, 10:56:59 PM »

I'd say captured characters don't have abilities, but then again, we have Peter. (Though he's triggered. Would that mean his ability isn't active after the trigger [capture])?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2011, 11:13:34 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on April 17, 2011, 10:46:05 PM

Negate LS is in play. I rescue with Gabriel and discard an enhancement from your deck. You block and play a card to capture Gabriel. Does his ability get negated and the enhancement go back to your deck? Intuitively I say no, ergo the same applies to TAS.

. If for no other reason than that would be needlessly complicated.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #13 on:** April 17, 2011, 11:37:47 PM »

Also, the way FBTN is worded prevents it from effecting 2-line and 3-line (or so I have been told). I would think the same logic that protects those cards would protect captured characters.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2011, 12:15:23 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on April 17, 2011, 10:46:05 PM

Negate LS is in play. I rescue with Gabriel and discard an enhancement from your deck. You block and play a card to capture Gabriel. Does his ability get negated and the enhancement go back to your deck? Intuitively I say no, ergo the same applies to TAS.

I disagree, its the same phase and the character once captured gains 2 new card types (captured character, LS) and the LS instant SA is negated during that phase and the searched and discarded enhancement is returned to the draw pile. seems logical and consistant to me unless there are special restrictions to the way captured characters are played in these scenerios aka captured characters and weapons.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2011, 08:36:27 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 17, 2011, 11:37:47 PM

Also, the way FBTN is worded prevents it from effecting 2-line and 3-line (or so I have been told). I would think the same logic that protects those cards would protect captured characters.

That is because the souls abilities are identifiers, otherwise they would be negated.

I don't see why there is no loop

Activate tas-His ability is negated goes back into battle where the lost soul is not targeting him, activates... lather rinse repeat.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #16 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:38:30 PM »

Once an ability is negated, can it be activated again?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #17 on:** April 18, 2011, 10:55:16 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on April 18, 2011, 10:38:30 PM

Once an ability is negated, can it be activated again?

If I negate AoC (not the promo) and then later my negate is negated it reactivates. Although the difference here is that the ability to target it that is changing rather than the negate being negated.

Mr.Hiatus · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2011, 01:12:45 AM »

So what's the verdict? Ruling going to the Elders? It's about to be big tourney time and I can see this one coming up a lot.

Korunks · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:19:58 AM »

I don't understand how there is a loop. When TAS captures itself it is an evil character, and then it turns itself into a ls. There is no rule that I know of that says when a character is captured they keep their ability. So why would a self captured TAS have an ability for the FBTN lost soul to negate?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:30:51 AM »

Quote from: Korunks on April 19, 2011, 08:19:58 AM

I don't understand how there is a loop. When TAS captures itself it is an evil character, and then it turns itself into a ls. There is no rule that I know of that says when a character is captured they keep their ability. So why would a self captured TAS have an ability for the FBTN lost soul to negate?

I agree, it would make the most sense for captured characters to loose their SA. Problem: Peter.

Korunks · « **Reply #21 on:** April 19, 2011, 08:49:54 AM »

I would say(And I am probably wrong) that peter's SA sets up a triggered ability that lasts until he returns. But that feels awkward. Lets just errata peter

SomeKittens · « **Reply #22 on:** April 19, 2011, 09:51:07 AM »

I mentioned that earlier, but I'm no elder.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #23 on:** April 19, 2011, 11:09:32 AM »

I agree that captured characters dont have an ability and in the Peter situation that he does set up a trigger.

STAMP · « **Reply #24 on:** April 19, 2011, 11:49:22 AM »

FYI - This card is really messed up.

The Amalekites' Slave (RA)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold/Brown • Ability: 4 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: If blocking, you may place this card in opponent's Land of Bondage to search your deck for a human Evil Character and add it to the battle. • Play As: If blocking, you may choose to have your opponent capture this card to search your deck for a human Evil Character and add to battle the Evil Character. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Egypt • Verse: I Samuel 30:13

First, as originally written there's no indication it ever becomes a lost soul.

Second, the play-as gives your opponent the ability to search your deck.

Third, it is my belief that "lost soul cards" <> "cards treated as lost souls".

News:

Author Topic: TAS and the FBTN LS (Read 3629 times)

TheHobbit13

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Chronic Apathy

TheHobbit13