Author Topic: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)  (Read 1336 times)

Offline Josh

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SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« on: March 15, 2018, 11:13:26 AM »
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Samaritan Water Jar - "Discard this card to reveal the top 3 cards of an opponent's deck (or 9 if a Samaritan Hero is in play) and set them aside. Put Lost Souls in play instead. When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck."

This card doesn't actually say that the cards must remain set aside until their owner's deck has no cards.  There's no duration actually stated.  It merely has a triggered ability that, if opponent's deck gets to zero cards, any of those cards still set aside get underdecked. 

With the rule about how setting aside other players' cards works, shouldn't the owner of the set aside cards be able to bring any to territory that they can and want to?  Like characters?
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »
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First of all, even if you could bring it back manually, set aside cards return to where they were set aside from (unless it was battle). So best case scenario you can get just your deck back early.

Second, how is "When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck." not a specified duration? Just because it isn't exactly a turn count like most duration based set asides, it is still specifying a time in the future when they come back on their own.

Offline Josh

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 01:26:53 PM »
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First of all, even if you could bring it back manually, set aside cards return to where they were set aside from (unless it was battle).

Didn't know this.  Is this in the REG?  (I believe you, just didn't realize I missed an important rule like this)

Second, how is "When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck." not a specified duration? Just because it isn't exactly a turn count like most duration based set asides, it is still specifying a time in the future when they come back on their own.

It can be interpreted either way, I think.  If I was going to create a card that had no duration but had a random trigger that would happen at some point in the future and would send the set-aside cards somewhere if they still happened to be set aside at that time, I'd word my card like SWJ.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 01:35:10 PM »
+1

Didn't know this.  Is this in the REG?  (I believe you, just didn't realize I missed an important rule like this)


It was an update to REG 5.0 after we realized that wasn't already the rule (since we playtested Seize Him that way).
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kariusvega

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 01:41:12 PM »
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Didn't know this.  Is this in the REG?  (I believe you, just didn't realize I missed an important rule like this)


It was an update to REG 5.0 after we realized that wasn't already the rule (since we playtested Seize Him that way).

Really appreciate this.

Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 04:48:51 PM »
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Second, how is "When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck." not a specified duration? Just because it isn't exactly a turn count like most duration based set asides, it is still specifying a time in the future when they come back on their own.

It can be interpreted either way, I think.  If I was going to create a card that had no duration but had a random trigger that would happen at some point in the future and would send the set-aside cards somewhere if they still happened to be set aside at that time, I'd word my card like SWJ.

The way I understand "duration", it means that if a set aside ability provides any way of getting the cards back, the duration is until that happens. Your interpretation only works if duration is defined to only refer to a set number of turns.

Offline jbeers285

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 05:10:03 PM »
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Didn't know this.  Is this in the REG?  (I believe you, just didn't realize I missed an important rule like this)


It was an update to REG 5.0 after we realized that wasn't already the rule (since we playtested Seize Him that way).

Clarifying then, are we back to seize him returning cards to the location they were set aside from? Thus it's no longer a way to get rid of Son of God from your opponent permanently?
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: SWJ (trying to make The Guardian's day)
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 05:19:28 PM »
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Second, how is "When that deck has no cards, return those cards from set-aside to deck." not a specified duration? Just because it isn't exactly a turn count like most duration based set asides, it is still specifying a time in the future when they come back on their own.

It can be interpreted either way, I think.  If I was going to create a card that had no duration but had a random trigger that would happen at some point in the future and would send the set-aside cards somewhere if they still happened to be set aside at that time, I'd word my card like SWJ.

The way I understand "duration", it means that if a set aside ability provides any way of getting the cards back, the duration is until that happens. Your interpretation only works if duration is defined to only refer to a set number of turns.

You can specify a duration with "until [whatever]" - that's the duration on Two Possessed by Demons ("until Son of God is played."). This might be a duration, but it's not how I'd word it now.


Didn't know this.  Is this in the REG?  (I believe you, just didn't realize I missed an important rule like this)


It was an update to REG 5.0 after we realized that wasn't already the rule (since we playtested Seize Him that way).

Clarifying then, are we back to seize him returning cards to the location they were set aside from? Thus it's no longer a way to get rid of Son of God from your opponent permanently?

Correct.

Quote from: REG 5.0>Set-Aside>5th Bullet
When a card returns from the set-aside area it goes the location it was set aside from, or territory if the battle it was set aside from has ended.

 


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