Cactus Game Design Message Boards

The protection does not get negated by ANB.

I was miffed that face-down (out of play) characters got shuffled but the reasoning the PTB used is consistent with set-asides being shuffled too.

ANB's ability is instant.  The site and color guard get shuffled at the same moment so the "protect from shuffling" ability that color guard gives ECs does not get negated or turned off.

Set-aside is out of play.  Face-down is out of play.  PTB stated that the phrase "ALL cards..." includes cards out of play.

If ANB shuffles face down Heroes then WoS should discard face down Heroes.

Face down cards have no identity. The card is not a hero until it is turned face up. "Cards" are cards whether they are face up or face down.

Then how can you begin a Rescue Attempt with one? The rulebook clearly states that only Heroes may begin Rescue Attempts.

Hey,

A New Beginning targets all cards to be shuffled into draw piles and then shuffles all of the cards it targeted into draw piles.  When it is targeting the Evil Characters are protected, so they are not targeted, then since they were not targeted they are not shuffled.  Once the shuffling happens the lost soul is gone so their protection goes away but at that point it's too late to target them.

Face down cards are shuffled by A New Beginning.  I believe the reason for this is because the ability says, "ALL cards" rather than, "all cards."  If it just said "all cards" face down cards wouldn't be shuffled   I really don't understand myself why we've decided that face down cards get shuffled, I just know that we decided that they do.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

.... which would follow suit with the fact that PTB is capitalized. Come to think of it, so is STAMP, so I think he should make all official rulings from now on.

I was yelling.

STAMP!!!!

Face down cards are shuffled by A New Beginning.  I believe the reason for this is because the ability says, "ALL cards" rather than, "all cards."  If it just said "all cards" face down cards wouldn't be shuffled   I really don't understand myself why we've decided that face down cards get shuffled, I just know that we decided that they do.

I thought that their being shuffled had nothing to do with them being face up or down, but the fact that they were connected to something that was being shuffled.  For instance, the site guard LS puts an EC face down on a site but when ANB is played, While they may be out of play, the site they are on is shuffled therefore, taking them with the ANB effect.  Same for the Darkness, etc.

Also, the Assyrian and Syrrian protection forts offer the EC's the same protection against shuffling because while they are protected by the forts ability, they are not connected to it (like Kingdoms of this World or Goshen for Heroes)  In the latter case, while they are protected from the effect, they are also connected to Kingdoms/Goshen which is not protected from the effect of ANB.

Are there any other examples of face down characters that are not connected to sites or fortresses?  if so, I think you can make a case that they should be protected from ANB's effect because they are out of play and not connected to anything that is being shuffled.

Assyrian Camp does not protect from shuffle.  Only Syrians have that.

Quote

Are there any other examples of face down characters that are not connected to sites or fortresses?

Yes, Ambushed Heroes and Invisible Beings'd angels.  They are face down in territory, connected to nothing.

Oh, I though  Assyrian Camp protected from Shuffle as well.

as far as the face down heroes go, I say ANB doesnt target them.  What about face down artifacts in the artifact pile also?

"Field of Battle" targets all cards in that location.

So then Rizpah's Sackcloth could discard a face down Hero?

Egyptian Horses completes before Ambush flips over the Hero.

If "Field of Battle" is a location then why wouldn't A Look Back discard a face down Hero in a territory?