Author Topic: Targeting Face Down Characters (Read 6371 times)

Sean · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:09:13 PM »

Quote

However, If that is the case, Abomination of Desicration COULD hit a face down hero, as it only specifies a "Card" in a "Territory."

Thanks for the extra example!

Abomination of Desolation

The Schaef · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:23:53 PM »

I personally wouldn't be opposed to any of those plays. You should probably get a confirming opinion, though.

Sean · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:24:52 PM »

OK, I'll wait for STAMP.

STAMP · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:41:53 PM »

I CONCUR.

NOW YOU JUST NEED TO FIND SOMEONE WHO STILL PLAYS WITH FACE-DOWN CHARACTERS.

Sean · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:45:50 PM »

OK, where's the play tester without any pants?

The Schaef · « **Reply #30 on:** June 08, 2009, 12:20:15 AM »

Quote from: STAMP on June 07, 2009, 11:41:53 PM

I CONCUR.

NOW YOU JUST NEED TO FIND SOMEONE WHO STILL PLAYS WITH FACE-DOWN CHARACTERS.

According to the ANB theory of form and style, this statement must be super-true because it is in all-caps.

Sean · « **Reply #31 on:** June 08, 2009, 09:37:26 PM »

Still looking for the thoughts of other play testers and PTB members.

lightningninja · « **Reply #32 on:** June 08, 2009, 10:08:44 PM »

PTB?

I'm kind of like a play tester...

I think that you can target "cards" face down or not, but not "heroes" that are face down, because you don't "know" that they are heroes.

As for protection from shuffling, yes, they are. It's just like if you play coliseum lions on Phineus, then they play jehoida's strength to interrupt it, you can't target another hero. As soon as ANB is used, the targets are confirmed, so if it has protection then, it doesn't matter if the protection gets shuffled.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #33 on:** June 08, 2009, 10:39:54 PM »

I'm a playdoh tester and a PBJ member. Did you want my input?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #34 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:41:17 AM »

PBJ? peanut butter and jelly club?

sk · « **Reply #35 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:09:03 AM »

PTB = Powers that Be = The people that can officially make rulings.

Quote from: lightningninja on June 08, 2009, 10:08:44 PM

I think that you can target "cards" face down or not, but not "heroes" that are face down, because you don't "know" that they are heroes.

I still don't get why we must reveal a card to prove it meets the requirements of a search ability, but we don't when putting a card face down on the table.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 07, 2009, 03:34:47 PM

.... which would follow suit with the fact that PTB is capitalized. Come to think of it, so is STAMP, so I think he should make all official rulings from now on.

Things bode badly for me.

STAMP · « **Reply #36 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:10:24 AM »

I'm a PBJ with a baseball bat!

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #37 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:14:51 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on June 09, 2009, 09:10:24 AM

I'm a PBJ with a baseball bat!

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #38 on:** June 11, 2009, 02:38:56 AM »

Blinding Demon:
Negate good drawing and good search abilities. Remove all face-down Heroes in battle, territory or set-aside from the game. Cannot be interrupted.

If you can't target face-down cards as heroes, does Blinding Demon's second SA work? Or does it work because it specifically targets face-down heroes?

Another card to consider:

The Assyrian Spoilers:
If another Assyrian is in play, discard a face-down Artifact at random from opponent's Artifact pile. If blocking, search your discard pile for Plunderers and play it.

crustpope · « **Reply #39 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:39:55 PM »

Both of those cards specifically target facedown cards so their SA's work. I think they meant that to target a hero means a hero in play. but if you specifically target something out of play (such as set aside areas) then the SA's work provided there are targets in those areas.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #40 on:** June 11, 2009, 12:44:10 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on June 11, 2009, 12:39:55 PM

Both of those cards specifically target facedown cards so their SA's work. I think they meant that to target a hero means a hero in play. but if you specifically target something out of play (such as set aside areas) then the SA's work provided there are targets in those areas.

However, the fact that you can target them means that face down cards keep their identifiers when out of play.

SirNobody · « **Reply #41 on:** June 11, 2009, 03:22:24 PM »

Hey,

I was trying to hold off on adding my two cents to this issue, but now that we have four different threads about it, I guess it's time to chime in. The current rules set regarding face down cards is confusing. I believe it should be replaced with the following:

Quote

Face Down Cards

A card can only be played face down if a special ability requires it to be face down or (for Artifacts) a game rule allows it.

While a card is face down its card type is determined based on the requirements of the ability or game rule that allowed the card to be placed onto the playing surface. All other attributes of the card are considered to be non-existent while the card is face down.

A face down card is protected from all special abilities except those that specify that they can target face down cards.

Change: Face Down cards are no longer considered to be out of play at all times. A face down card is still out of play if it is set aside, but while in a territory, an artifact pile, or the Field of Battle, a face down card is now considered to be in play.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

The Schaef · « **Reply #42 on:** June 11, 2009, 04:25:27 PM »

That change would weaken compensatory strategies for AoCPromo and other pre-block winners.

TimMierz · « **Reply #43 on:** June 11, 2009, 04:44:35 PM »

It would bring back the believed value of Split Altar though.

SirNobody · « **Reply #44 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:22:36 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: The Schaef on June 11, 2009, 04:25:27 PM

That change would weaken compensatory strategies for AoCPromo and other pre-block winners.

Quote from: TimMierz on June 11, 2009, 04:44:35 PM

It would bring back the believed value of Split Altar though.

I don't understand either of those comments. It wouldn't change how AoC Promo or Split Altar affects face down cards at all.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #45 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:26:12 PM »

Quote

A face down card is protected from all special abilities except those that specify that they can target face down cards.

Change: Face Down cards are no longer considered to be out of play at all times. A face down card is still out of play if it is set aside, but while in a territory, an artifact pile, or the Field of Battle, a face down card is now considered to be in play.

What is the difference between being out of play and being in play but protected unless it explicitly states it targets face down cards?

The Schaef · « **Reply #46 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:26:32 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on June 11, 2009, 05:22:36 PM

I don't understand either of those comments. It wouldn't change how AoC Promo or Split Altar affects face down cards at all.

You don't think AoC would affect a face-down character in play differently than it affects a face-down character out of play?

:edit: Aggie cut to the point faster than I got there.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #47 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:27:20 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on June 11, 2009, 05:22:36 PM

Hey,

Quote from: The Schaef on June 11, 2009, 04:25:27 PM
That change would weaken compensatory strategies for AoCPromo and other pre-block winners.

Quote from: TimMierz on June 11, 2009, 04:44:35 PM
It would bring back the believed value of Split Altar though.

I don't understand either of those comments. It wouldn't change how AoC Promo or Split Altar affects face down cards at all.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

AoCP could kill face down characters then, and Split Altar would be allowed to shuffle in an entire artifact pile.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #48 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:29:50 PM »

I think the whole of Nobody's quote is important, not just the part after "Change:". They're in play, but protected from everything that doesn't target face down cards.

The Schaef · « **Reply #49 on:** June 11, 2009, 05:35:51 PM »

Right, which as you say, what is the point in making that distinction?

News:

Author Topic: Targeting Face Down Characters (Read 6371 times)

The Schaef

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef