Author Topic: David's Harp, errata?  (Read 2296 times)

Offline galadgawyn

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David's Harp, errata?
« on: September 05, 2010, 10:27:53 PM »
+1
How is the Play as listed for David's Harp, not errata?

Quote
David's Harp (Ki)
Type: Artifact • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Following a rescue attempt holder may select one Hero that is about to be discarded and place Hero on top of owner's draw pile. Prevent Evil Spirit. • Play As: Following your rescue attempt, heal one of your Heroes that was or is being discarded from battle and place Hero on top of deck. Prevent Evil Spirit. • Identifiers: None • Verse: I Samuel 16:23 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)


The "play as" changes it from any rescue attempt to just yours, changes it from something like an instead ability to it being a heal card, and changes it to only targeting a hero that was discarded in battle.  That is not just clarifying the card but significantly changing how the card can be used.  Now maybe all of that is what they meant when they made the card but does that matter? 
I thought that there was this strong standard for cards to do what is actually written on them (Split Altar) except for in extreme circumstances where errata is needed (ANB).  What happened to that?

It is frustrating when they acknowledge that a card was supposed to do something else (Split Altar) and the players would like to see it played that way but they insist we can't because we have to stick to doing what the card actually says and we don't errata cards to make them better.  OK.  But then why are changes like this made?

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2010, 12:04:01 AM »
0
How long has this "Play As" been around? Maybe the rules that govern "Play As" vs. "Errata" have changed since then, since they likely changed before Split Altar came out.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2010, 12:23:41 AM »
+1
I didn't even know this was in place. I thought the card did what it said. Silly me.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2010, 12:54:18 AM »
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How long has this "Play As" been around? Maybe the rules that govern "Play As" vs. "Errata" have changed since then, since they likely changed before Split Altar came out.
I also think this is a good question, and likely a good explanation of what happened.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2010, 01:25:31 AM »
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In other words, pay no attention to the rules document behind the curtain.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2010, 10:37:09 AM »
+2
In other words, pay no attention to the rules document behind the curtain.
No, in other words, Redemption has evolved quite a bit over the last 15 years, and that necessitated the rules and design process to evolve with it.  A long time ago, Rob would make promos for people by changing the stats on their cards with a sharpie and signing them.  But now promos are playtested and given out in a more standardized method.  In the past, perhaps erratas were given out more frequently, but now there is a consistent method of determining if they are necessary.  This is a natural progression in the game.

Instead of snide negativity, how about some appreciation for how the game has grown, and the continual efforts of the PTB to make the game fun to play and to have consistent rules.

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2010, 02:25:37 PM »
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Ok, so are you saying this play as is an old leftover that needs to be updated and fixed?  I can understand that.

I had not seen that for David's Harp before (or seen anybody play it that way) so I got the impression this was a recent change that isn't in line with the consistent standards you are talking about. 

Offline SirNobody

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2010, 02:43:48 PM »
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Hey,

I have noticed that "Play As" has gotten very muddled in it's purpose in recent years.  There are a lot of cards that should have play as that don't and a lot of cards that have play as that isn't quite right.  I think what often happens is that Play As is added to address one concern but we're not careful enough when we write it so it ends up changing something else.

I have just started a project of reviewing all of the cards and insuring they have appropriate play as.  So within a month or two play as in the REG should start to look more accurate/reliable/clear.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline galadgawyn

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 02:58:24 PM »
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That is a very hopeful message.  Judging from history I'm guessing that it will be a while longer than 2 months.  While it often seems like it is going at the pace of a turtle I'd much prefer to see slow and steady progress then to have issues "fixed" then "fixed" again and several years later it still not clear how they work.  Slow progress is better than spinning in circles. 

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 04:27:49 PM »
+1
I'd much prefer to see slow and steady progress then to have issues "fixed" then "fixed" again and several years later it still not clear how they work.  Slow progress is better than spinning in circles. 
Speaking of slow, steady progress...perhaps Tim, you could correct these Play As situations in blocks as you go instead of waiting until they are all done.  It seems like the project would actually go a bit faster if it were broken down into less overwhelming chunks :)

Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 05:01:31 PM »
+1
I thought we all knew that the play as should be disregarded and are for the REG's purposes only.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 12:03:08 AM »
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My comment was meant to be snidely tongue-in-cheek and therefore not snide or sarcastic, but I guess that didn't carry over without my smirk.

Basically, I think it's safe to say that you can reliable ignore REG play-as that is actually errata. Also, if it is not on the list of Play-As/Errata on the board, it doesn't count. Does this sound right?
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline Gabe

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 10:25:25 AM »
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Basically, I think it's safe to say that you can reliable ignore REG play-as that is actually errata. Also, if it is not on the list of Play-As/Errata on the board, it doesn't count. Does this sound right?

That is mostly accurate.  The only * I would add is that even the errata section of the boards is missing a few, like the Tartaros and Highway (and friends) erratas.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 10:38:49 AM »
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Just a thought, once we get all the play-as and errata straightened out in the REG, could we make a page in the REG to list all the cards that have been errata'd?

Offline Master_Chi

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 11:07:30 AM »
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Just a thought, once we get all the play-as and errata straightened out in the REG, could we make a page in the REG to list all the cards that have been errata'd?

A noble idea, sir.
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2010, 12:44:28 PM »
+1
That list would be too long.

A New Beginning
Holy Grail
A New Beginning
A Child is Born
A New Beginning
Sin in the Camp
A New Beginning
Unholy Writ
A New Beginning

etc etc

Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 03:17:16 PM »
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That list would be too long.

A New Beginning
Holy Grail
A New Beginning
A Child is Born
A New Beginning
Sin in the Camp
A New Beginning
Unholy Writ
A New Beginning

etc etc
You forgot A New Beginning.
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Offline Master_Chi

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Re: David's Harp, errata?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2010, 09:08:45 AM »
0
That list would be too long.

A New Beginning
Holy Grail
A New Beginning
A Child is Born
A New Beginning
Sin in the Camp
A New Beginning
Unholy Writ
A New Beginning

etc etc
You forgot A New Beginning.

Don't forget about ANB's errata....
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