Cactus Game Design Message Boards

My opponent has Nazareth in play.  I attack with Simon the Zealot from hand.  Can I search my deck?  It seems that I should be able to, if Protect abilities are ongoing and continuously updating.  As soon as StZ's ability activates, my deck is now protected from opponents, and to quote the Wiki entry below, "A card cannot be targeted by an ability from which it is protected".  I see no reason why Nazareth being active before StZ enters battle would somehow make it so Nazareth can continue to target my deck after StZ enters battle.

Nazareth - Protect cards in your territory and hand from shuffle by an opponent. Protect all decks from search abilities.

Simon the Zealot - Negate and discard Rome and a N.T. Idol. First Strike. Protect your hand and deck from opponents’ cards while this Hero remains in play.

Protect
How to Play
A card cannot be targeted by an ability from which it is protected. Game rules do not apply to a card that is protected from the effect of the game rule.
All protect abilities are ongoing. A protect ability targets the cards that gain protected status.
Default Conditions
Protect abilities last until the end of the phase in which they are used.
Protect abilities target cards in play.
Characters cannot be protected from themselves.
Special Conditions
Protection from cards only protects from being targeted by the special abilities of those cards, not from game rules influenced by those cards.
Protection from effects protects from game rules that result in those effects and cards with special abilities that result in those effects.

Nazareth does not protect the deck from StZ, no, but it is already happening by the time StZ activates.  Protect only affects future targeting, and Nazareth has already targeted deck with its ability.  If Nazareth were put into play after StZ activates, or is negated after he activates, then the protection of StZ extends to Nazareth.

However, if the protection was already targeting deck prior to StZ protecting it, the protection from Nazareth sticks and you may not search.

Protect affects future targeting, yes.  However, ongoing abilities are always "future targeting", because they are continually trying to target.  That's why when an ongoing ability is prevented upon entering play, and later the prevent is negated, the ongoing ability begins working immediately, without waiting for a new phase, etc.

A few examples to give food for thought:

Example 1:  My opponent attacks with a Disciple, I block with a Babylonian.  It's a stalemate, and initiative is passed to me.  I play Great Image.  My opponent then plays Ezekiel's Stick and bands Thaddeus (with the full suite of Disciples in play) into battle.  I play Grapes of Wrath.  Do the heroes in territory get discarded?  By your logic, they do, since Thad's protection activated after Great Image.

Example 2:  I attack with Simon the Zealot; Nazareth is not in play.  My opponent blocks with an EC that draws cards.  He draws the Far Country LS, searches his discard for Nazareth, and puts it in play.  My opponent has initiative, and he plays a card that negates StZ.  Does Nazareth now protect my deck from search?  If so, then it would seem that Nazareth is at all times trying to protect my deck from search.  If Nazareth can activate mid-battle when StZ is "turned off", why can't StZ make my deck "disappear" from Nazareth's continual targeting mid-battle?

It is also similar to the following:  Consider Uzzah blocking, protecting souls from rescue.  Somehow, Abigail is banded into battle.  Her protection is from evil cards, but Uzzah is already active.  Unless Uzzah is interrupted or negated when she enters, her protection does nothing to the existing protection.

This scenario is exactly the same as StZ attacking when Nazareth is already active.  So as Uzzah's protection continues to activate, immediately after Abby joins the battle, all the potential targets for protection would disappear.

Example 2 is a misunderstanding of when protect works.  StZ is indeed trying to protect your deck, but that has nothing to do with whether he can protect from Naz that is already active.  Naz is already 'in' and targeting.  You have to shut it down before you can protect from it, as per the Uzzah vs Abigail example above.

I think you may have misread the example.  StZ activates with no Naz in play.  Then Naz enters play.  Then StZ is negated.  At that point, Naz immediately starts protecting my deck from search.  My point with this example is that Naz, even though it could not target my deck when initially played, immediately starts protecting it when StZ is negated - because Naz's protect ability is ongoing and is always retargeting its protection.

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Our disagreement, I think, comes down to one simple point:  You say that a target of a protect ability, once targeted, is not being "retargeted" continually.  I say it is.  Hence, why Uzzah will protect a LS that is put in play after he has already activated, or why Abby will protect a LS drawn after she has entered battle, or Nazareth will stop protecting my deck the second my StZ is negated. 

It's this function of Protect abilities - they are ongoing and always looking to retarget on new targets - that makes them retarget the existing targets as well.  The second that Abby's ability protects a LS, Uzzah can't target that LS anymore.  It was targeted in the past, but it has, in essence, "gone invisible" and Uzzah can't see it.

I know your description is how Protection has been ruled to work.  For me, a strict reading of the Protect ability, with no prior knowledge of the ruling, would cause me to rule it as I interpret it.  (Uzzah was protecting LS from rescue; Abigail activated; now Uzzah can't protect them, because Abigail removed them as legal targets for protection)  Perhaps additional wording can be included to clarify scenarios such as the ones we've been describing.

I know your description is how Protection has been ruled to work.  For me, a strict reading of the Protect ability, with no prior knowledge of the ruling, would cause me to rule it as I interpret it.  (Uzzah was protecting LS from rescue; Abigail activated; now Uzzah can't protect them, because Abigail removed them as legal targets for protection)  Perhaps additional wording can be included to clarify scenarios such as the ones we've been describing.

Think of it this way, when Abigail is there before Uzzah she can protect the lost souls from mean old Uzzah. However when he gets there first he can hide the lost souls from heroes. Abigail cannot protect them after the fact. You can't protect someone or something after the initial event has occured.