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It was ruled that Arrest was protected from discard with Stoic in play. How is this different than Thadd granting protection to the blocking EC that can still target itself with cards like DoU?

Just to clarify, are you saying that it was ruled Arrest would not discard itself after 3 turns if Stoic was in play?

yes that was the ruling.

LOL... semantics...

So we're back to a "Christian" game where the Son of God cannot rescue Lost Souls. 

Is it too late to make changes to the new REG?   

Hey,

I get to make the new card silly

The problem that I see is that people like me, who thought that the rule was "Cards cannot be protected from themselves," will rule it that way if a player presents that combo in a local tournament. The player may then scrap the combo, only to go to Natz and find out the same combo was allowed and helped that other person win. All the blame then comes back to me, because I made an error in not realizing that only characters cannot be protected from themselves.

I'm sure that more than just a few of us thought the ruling was "cards" not characters. Am I off base here?

My understanding of the new REG is that we are trying to simplify rulings so that a new host does not need a law degree, or a last name of Maust, in order to make correct rulings. This kind of discrepancy is what causes errors. Why isn't the rule "cards" instead of "characters?" Wouldn't that be simpler and more comprehensive?

Just another example of a play tester gaming the system. They went 3/4 in t1. When will they be banned from competition?

Its a good combo that benefits off an oddly worded card but all you have to do is grail that little guy or attack/ block with a btn character. Convenant with Death and Abe's Kid work too.

There are numerous reasons why I left Redemption but this is definitely one of the reasons I left: players get really frustrated when one player figures out an awesome combo that no one realizes and cry foul that everyone wasn't aware of it.

I think you are misunderstanding my concern. This combo did not affect me personally, or any of my players. I am not "crying foul" about the combo. I have three overarching concerns:

1.) A Christian game where Son of God is rendered useless.
2.) A rule that could be clear and consistent by changing one word in the REG.
3.) Inconsistency in rulings that cause one player to be told a combo doesn't work in one region, while another player is told it does work in another.

I would not be so presumptuous to think that no one else figured out this combo, but the ruling went against them locally, so they dropped it.

Quote from: Captain Kirk on August 03, 2015, 09:15:09 AM

There are numerous reasons why I left Redemption but this is definitely one of the reasons I left: players get really frustrated when one player figures out an awesome combo that no one realizes and cry foul that everyone wasn't aware of it.

I think you are misunderstanding my concern. This combo did not affect me personally, or any of my players. I am not "crying foul" about the combo. I have three overarching concerns:

1.) A Christian game where Son of God is rendered useless.
2.) A rule that could be clear and consistent by changing one word in the REG.
3.) Inconsistency in rulings that cause one player to be told a combo doesn't work in one region, while another player is told it does work in another.

I would not be so presumptuous to think that no one else figured out this combo, but the ruling went against them locally, so they dropped it.

Hey YMT,

Sorry, my comment wasn't directed at you specifically,but rather at the Redemption community since this feels similar to episodes I experienced first-hand over the years that have left a bad taste in my mouth. I am not an active part of the community so I will let those who are address your concerns.

Kirk

The rules are very specific on which abilities on ECs don't transfer over to heroes:  those that target heroes.  Stoic Philosopher's ability does not target heroes, so it still works.

Even this is going to cause misunderstandings when the new REG comes out, because the wording has been changed again. Now the only EC abilities that don't convert are the ones that target heroes at face value. Therefore, if an EC had an ability that said "Protect this character from conversion," and was then converted, the ability would now work with the hero. Under the more general rule of "cannot target a hero," the converted ability would not work since it targets the new hero. This is my opinion, however, of what "face value" means.

However, aside from all that, I agree that Stoic Philosophers would still work if converted.

Or Invoking Terror et al.

My personal favorite play would be creating an evil side battle (which I did last night in a game against JD  )

i agree with Kirk. i think i'm more surprised so few people in top cut found the time to negate arrest and get at least a couple of lost souls with their sog nj lol it doesn't seem that hard to negate honestly. i mean ehud can choose the blocker grab king of tyrus which negates it right? moses negates it sog nj, captain tsa daniel i mean how many more options do you need to negate it just to play sog nj it's not like it really renders sog nj useless.. all that said i don't feel like this is broken at all i don't even feel like John's deck is op i just feel like he made very wise decisions utilizing not just a combo but combinations, which arrest wasn't even added as a part of the deck until the morning of T1-2P, just to show you his skill level and how far out of the meta he was playing to exploit one very important part of the game: site access.

all the more respect to John for being very well played and well thought out. he put in work for this win it is not because he is a playtester or has some kind of insiders info other than Gabe    as far as i can tell no one, not even he, thought about this combo until the morning of T1-2P which is pretty boss