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I can't find anything in the REG or Tournament Guide that refers to stalling, except this quote:

The referee shall warn a player if they believe a player is only asking a question
to stall for time.

However, that only relates to asking a referree a question.  I know that some players play slower than others, but stalling has changed the results of many big tournaments over the years.  For example, stalling kept one player from placing in T1 2p and one player from placing in T2 2p at Nats 08.  Some of the stalling that I have witnessed is unintentional, but some of it is intentional.

Especially with players using huge decks, such as The Behemoth, or heavy defense decks, many opponents will slow-play their opponents to keep the opponent from finishing drawing their smaller offenses to win.  I realize it is a natural downside to playing defensive heavy decks.  Over the years I have experienced this when I used heroless at tournaments and I know it is a race against the clock.

I know intentionally stalling is illegal, so how can I get a judge to side with me?  It is very frustrating when I have done everything I can to keep my opponent from stalling me.  Especially when I warn my opponent to stop playing slower than he is allowed to play and he has nothing he can possibly do to stop me (I saw his hand and he had no good enhancements left and my big evil character would thwart any rescue attempt he might attempt and he ran out of defense that could stop me).  By the time I get a judge to keep my opponent from stalling, it is too late and the time has ran out.

Kirk

Kirk I think the letter of the law means that they have they can take the minimum ammount of time given to them by the reg (90seconds intro/prep, 30 seconds per card in battle and 60 seconds discard)  so at minimum they should be able to sit there for 2.5 minutes during their turn and do little or nothing legaly.  ANd given that type 2 decks are very frustrating to play against and therefore make people want to stall, I think you, or anyone, should give them that minimum time (unless they actually do play cards in battle, then they woudl getmore time) before you insist that it is "your turn" again.  I know of a couple people who were a bit miffed at you and your deck when you would get done with your turn and insist that it was "your turn" again because there wasn't much that they could do on their turn.

While most people wouldn't try to "stall", playing a frustrating deck, like the first time I played Clift's SitC deck, can tempt us to stall.  I didnt stall when I played Clift's deck because I recognized that, I had been out played and his deck had done its job, so basically when I drew LS's I saved him the time of rescuing them and put them straight into his LoR.  That was sort of the "anti-stall"..my way of saying "Get me out of this game"

However, I have make Pequinot play out his whole combo because I didn't know whether he could actually complete the combo in the time allowed.  he actually did and he won 7-4 as the time expired so i dont consider that stalling, but just making sure that he could do wh at he said he coudl do with his deck in the time given.

Unless the rules are changed though to state soemthign like,  you have 90 seconds during y rou tinro phases  UNLESS you cannot sdo anything" then I say that if they want it  you have to give them that minumuym 2.5 minutes time.

I can't speak for the other judges but I have no tolerance for using up the time just for using it up.  Play a card or move on.

well, I think the same rules apply.  a minimum of 2.5 minutes unless they start a battle. then another 30 seconds per card.

If you have someone who is known to play slow, then call them on it early and often and try to shave as much time off of yoru end so that  you can play your deck for the win at the end.

I can't speak for the other judges but I have no tolerance for using up the time just for using it up.  Play a card or move on.

While this si refreshing, what is in the rules to stop people from taking their alloted time just to take it?

I agree. A player who knows he can't do anything should allow his opponent to take his turn. The one game I lost at 2007 NC Regionals was the one game I didn't use my Heroless deck, because I knew my opponent likes to take his time (but he's a really nice guy and I didn't want to seem like a jerk). Now if I had won that game, I still may not have gotten first, as I would eventually have had Nobody to play, but I still wonder sometimes if I could have taken a Regional title with no heroes.

Quote from: crustpope on July 16, 2009, 11:03:16 AM

If you have someone who is known to play slow, then call them on it early and often and try to shave as much time off of yoru end so that  you can play your deck for the win at the end.

You and I both know this doesn't matter half the time.  I did such in both the critical games my post is referring to.

Kirk

Yes I know, but What I am saying is that, if someone insists on taking the time, what can you do?  Unless some provision exists that states that you can have the time ONLY if you can do somethign with it, then they still have their time that the REG grants them.  Until those provisions exist in the rules I dont see a way around letting th em eat up all two and a half minutes of their time.

I also would argue against the line of thinking "well, that's the risk you take for using defensive decks". The last thing Redemption needs is to eliminate the creativity and complexity involved with having a big enough D to stop attacks at all fronts.

Matt,
You keep saying 2.5 minutes, it is 3.5 min (90 sec draw/upkeep/prep, 30 sec battle, 90 sec d/c).

At the same time kirk, everyone loves taking advantage of a rule that seems based on antiquated language (battle prayer anyone?) and yet you seem so miffed when the same language gives someone an advantage that really puts pressure on a deck you have created.

Well there is a difference between the wording on a single card and a general set of game rules.  I care little about the wording on specific cards.  If they work a certain way to make a specific deck work well, then great, I use them.  If not, then I just make a completely new deck that uses other strategies and other cards to make the new deck work well.  However, time limits/stalling play into every game, no matter what type of decks are being using.  I mean, I've even seen players with G/H decks time out before.  That is why I want to know if there are specific provisions to keep my opponent from stalling or if specific provisions will be added.

Kirk

Look, the rule was put in place for us older guys.  You'll just have to live with it or give us our own category.  

Amen to that. Bi-focals, Half-heimers, and breathing give the 40+ crowd another 3-5 years. 

By the way I am selling completely black market "officially authorized Redemption hour glasses". $50 each delivery subject to the end of my next turn. www.bequickbutdonthurry.com

I really hate stalling. The provisions put in place were NOT meant to give players the opportunity to legally stall. For example, using Great Faith to search for Great Faith should be "legal stalling" but illegal. The times were given to show that while you can't take the entire game deciding what artifact you want, you also don't need to rush. I doubt anybody is in favor of game-clocks like in Chess though, I don't know what a good solution would be.

That's a misnomer. You stole the defense first, and then I stole your offense. I'll call it a joint venture, lol.

Naw, you showed me basic brown sitelock, then I surpassed the teacher.   

Hey,

I agree with Schaef in that any time a player takes more time than they need they are stalling, and stalling is always illegal.  Unfortunately, this almost always has to be enforced by the honors system because there's no real way for a judge to know if a player is just stalling for time or if they are trying to decide if they want to activate a different artifact or trying to make some other decision.

I thought the Tournament Guide included this information but I'm not seeing it there.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

i facd wonderment about this in a local tournament yesterday, as it looked like a lot of people were stalling, but really they were newer, and were figuring out to do.