New Redemption Grab Bag now includes an assortment of 500 cards from five (5) different expansion sets. Available at Cactus website.
Why should face down cards be exceptions?
If they are in play, they would count for and be targeted by many things that depend on what card it is, but when it's face-down, not all players can know what it is. For example, if I have an Ambushed N.T. character in my territory and my opponent tries to CM it and I try to use Herod's Temple, how would my opponent know whether I'm Discarding the proper brigade or whether the Hero is even N.T. in the first place? Making them out of play solves more problems than it creates.
does this mean that a new beginning can't target artifact piles now? (sry if this is a redundant question, i haven't been able to read all 9 pages of discussion)
Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on March 05, 2012, 06:09:46 PMdoes this mean that a new beginning can't target artifact piles now? (sry if this is a redundant question, i haven't been able to read all 9 pages of discussion)No. It targets all face-down cards that do not have protection from shuffle (which currently is none). It's due to how targeting was defined eons ago for "ALL cards" "not in Land of Redemption and discard".
Quote from: STAMP on March 05, 2012, 06:20:09 PMQuote from: sepjazzwarrior on March 05, 2012, 06:09:46 PMdoes this mean that a new beginning can't target artifact piles now? (sry if this is a redundant question, i haven't been able to read all 9 pages of discussion)No. It targets all face-down cards that do not have protection from shuffle (which currently is none). It's due to how targeting was defined eons ago for "ALL cards" "not in Land of Redemption and discard".The errata doesn't say ALL though, and as such, if ANB is to target face down artifacts, it probably needs another errata. The pile is not in play, a set-aside area, or a hand.
I'm simply not sure what the etiquette on handling erratas is. If they are, as jmhartz described, the final word on the card (which I believe they should be), then as of right now, ANB simply doesn't shuffle artifact piles.
unfortunatly the elder's have been fairly silent in this thread.
As for what to do with these cards, I already posted about Split Altar on the last page, but you should only shuffle active artifacts with that card. As for ANB, you should shuffle your whole artifact pile (including the face-down ones) and all your other non-protected cards that aren't in your land of redemption or discard pile.
Maybe this means ANB needs yet another errata, but if you want that, you'll have to get some other elder to care more than I do about these annoying cards
The inconsistencies here are really frustrating.
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the Elder's don't want to spend more time on this.