Author Topic: Something I was wondering about my Self... (Read 4555 times)

The Guardian · « **on:** July 16, 2009, 03:36:35 AM »

In type 2 Self copies a Hero and is 5/5 (for example). Self makes a successful block and gains 1/1 experience credit. The Hero Self is copying then leaves the Field of Play. Self's abilities (*/*) are now 0/0 but he still has 1/1 experience credit, does he stay in play and would be able to copy a different Hero?

Self~multi-colored EC

Abilities (*/*) match the abilities of one of opponent’s Heroes in play. If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:40:14 AM »

I would say that he stays in play 1/1

Because the first part is a description of (*/*) I don't think you choose a new hero.

The Guardian · « **Reply #2 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:45:07 AM »

Hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way. He would not be able to re-target since his ability only activates when he is first put in play if I understand you right. So in essence he would keep the identifiers of the Hero he targeted, but the numbers would be 0/0 and he's just left with whatever experience credit he has.

If that is the case, I presume he would regain the numbers if the same Hero re-entered the Field of Play?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:49:26 AM »

I'm not sure on that, I think that also would be like re-targeting, so I would be inclined to say no. It doesn't say, If hero re-enters play */* return. (Course thats because self is supposed to be dead.) I would say that its not dynamic so he stays at 1/1 if the hero comes back into play.

The first sentence is a description of (*/*) the second is a special ability (Kill self if the hero dies.)

Or at least thats how I see it.

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:53:10 AM »

Is the second part a special ability or a clarifier? If it's a special ability is it active outside of battle? Why are John and Justin posting stuff like this at 3 in the morning?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2009, 03:57:23 AM »

I'm honestly not sure, it is worded as a special ability, but it does deal with the */* though not in describing them. (which is a clarifier). If it is a special ability then it's not active outside of battle, because it doesn't state that it is.
I'm posting because I worked an 8 to 8 and this is my free time. I have no clue why you're posting.

The Guardian · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:01:57 AM »

I'm posting cuz I'm more hungry than I am tired but I can't decide on what to eat so that I don't stay awake all night...

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:05:36 AM »

I was thinking about the self issue, and I realized that either we're missing something (In which case one of the heavyweights needs to chime in) Or Self needs an Errata/Play as where after the initial selection, every time he enters battle he checks to see if the hero is in play, if not he discards himself after battle. Because the 1/1 exp credit doesn't help Self if he resets to 0/0 after seeing that the Hero is no longer there.

The Guardian · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:26:21 AM »

*Waits for a heavyweight to chime in*

*Looks at the time*

*Goes to bed upon completion of sandwich and chips...*

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:28:01 AM »

Great, thanks Justin, now I'm hungry too....

The Guardian · « **Reply #10 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:29:16 AM »

Well, I'm not anymore...at least we got one thing accomplished tonight between the two of us...

I'm just thankful SuperAmerica is open 24/7 so I didn't have to force myself to try and sleep with McDonalds sitting in my stomach...SA deli sandwich hit the spot.

(And yes, I need to go grocery shopping...)

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #11 on:** July 16, 2009, 04:32:41 AM »

My Kitchen is in much the same status... Maybe Self mistakenly targeted your Kitchen when I played it earlier....

Gabe · « **Reply #12 on:** July 16, 2009, 07:56:37 AM »

I've always heard it said that the text on Self is an identifier explaining the */*. It's not a SA that activates when Self enters battle. It takes place when Self comes into play.

Assuming that is correct I expect that Self would become 0/0 when the Hero leaves play, regardless of any experience credit Self has earned.

crustpope · « **Reply #13 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:30:44 AM »

Well what is experience credit? is it not a permanent addition to your abilities? could you not retain those abilities even if the base you built it on (the hero no longer in play) is gone?

Gabe · « **Reply #14 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:36:46 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on July 16, 2009, 11:30:44 AM

Well what is experience credit? is it not a permanent addition to your abilities? could you not retain those abilities even if the base you built it on (the hero no longer in play) is gone?

That seems logical but it's not what Self says. It says "If that Hero leaves the field of play, abilities become 0/0."

0/0 is still 0/0 no matter how many counters you add. If it said "Self loses that character's attributes" or something along those lines, then experience credit would keep Self around.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #15 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:38:09 AM »

What about Silly Women? Does she gain 1/1 for a block on top of the dynamic check for the number of ECs in play?

Silly Women
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: * / * • Class: None • Special Ability: Character's abilities (*/*) are equal to the number of all Evil Characters in play.

Kirk

crustpope · « **Reply #16 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:39:49 AM »

sound like another card that was designed without considering type 2 rules of experience credit.

And I would say yes to that, but she would get to keep her credit even if there are no other EC's in play. end result, she ( and angel with the secret name) would still be alive if they had experience credit and Self woulld not due to bad wording.

Korunks · « **Reply #17 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:41:04 AM »

I am pretty sure she would, as long she is in play she is always at least a 1/1, not like self who is capable of being 0/0.

STAMP · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:41:55 AM »

I've always ruled that experience credit is a gained ability, and as such, cannot be negated or targeted by cards with ability descriptors.

But, of course, that's just me.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #19 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:43:03 AM »

I don't know if Self could be said to have "bad wording" if the original intent was to make it so it couldn't with just experience counters in T2...

I guess to determine that, we need to determine who made the card.

If no one speaks up, I'll take credit... I mean....

Kirk

crustpope · « **Reply #20 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:44:23 AM »

Well, is experience credit a gaind ability? that means they would be protected from reduction (crown of thorns) and such.

CountFount · « **Reply #21 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:52:19 AM »

Quote from: crustpope on July 16, 2009, 11:44:23 AM

Well, is experience credit a gaind ability? that means they would be protected from reduction (crown of thorns) and such.

How do you ignore what the card says? I can think of some other cards I would like to ignore. '0' means '0' .

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2009, 11:54:57 AM »

The REG says the following. Therefore, I see no reason why Crown of Thorns would not include experience credit.

Quote

All the Evil Characters blocking Widow must be smaller than (*/8). If Widow is brought into battle later, blocking Evil Character(s) (*/8) or higher remain in battle but are ignored. Enhancements do not count toward toughness when determining whether a character can block; however, numbers gained or lost due to set aside, experience credit, poison, etc. do count.

Kirk

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2009, 01:58:50 PM »

The only way to kill Silly Women is to set them aside without expirience credit. Other than that they are at least 1/1.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2009, 08:23:26 PM »

Last night I was definitely in agreement with Gabe on this one, because I have never thought of experience credit as separate from abilities. After doing a little investigation I am slightly more unsure now...

Quote from: REG

Abilities (numbers) are points of offensive strength (*/), and defensive toughness (/*) of a character or enhancement. The card’s abilities are listed in the icon box. See Anatomy of a Card.

Quote from: Rulebook

Each time a character successfully rescues a Lost Soul or successfully blocks, the character receives a 1/1 counter. In this way a character grows stronger with experience.

Note, that abilities "are listed in the icon box" and experience credit is described as a "1/1 counter" as opposed to bumping up the character's abilities. Of course, I'm probably over analyzing this.

News:

Author Topic: Something I was wondering about my Self... (Read 4555 times)