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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: JSB23 on November 17, 2010, 12:33:03 AM

Title: SoG + NJ?
Post by: JSB23 on November 17, 2010, 12:33:03 AM
Does the SoG + NJ combo work? becuase it is humanly impossible to play them and make sure they hit the table at the exact same time (Which is what simultaneous means) so it's condition (being played simultaneously) hasn't been fulfilled therefore it shouldn't work.

I'm going to need a ruling from Rob on this one because he's never made an actual ruling on it so it could go either way.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Guardian on November 17, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

I will allow another Elder to confirm this and then we don't need to bother Rob.

K?THXBYE  :)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: christiangamer25 on November 17, 2010, 01:17:24 AM
lol
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: JSB23 on November 17, 2010, 01:35:42 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

I will allow another Elder to confirm this and then we don't need to bother Rob.

K?THXBYE  :)
I'm sorry Rob has never ruled it  that way so it's not official
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: RedemptionAggie on November 17, 2010, 01:41:23 AM
If you're only going to accept an answer from Rob, you'd probably be better off emailing him.

But the answer is going to be what Guardian said.  Changing the ruling such that NJ never works would have the same effect as banning it, which I don't see Rob doing.  Or you'd get people taking them out of their sleeves (or not using sleeves) and taping them together to make sure they hit the table at the same time.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: DDiceRC on November 17, 2010, 09:31:16 AM
This would be related to Rob's Haman's Plot ruling, which says the card does not have to be torn into exact halves, just torn in two parts so it cannot be reused. (I got that one live when my son was playing him and tried to pull the "it's not halves, because one side is bigger than the other" argument.) Redemption allows for some slight "human effect" when cards are played so that impossible physical feats are not required.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 17, 2010, 09:57:25 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

I will allow another Elder to confirm this and then we don't need to bother Rob.

K?THXBYE  :)

Dude, you dont NEED another elder to make rulings... look at all of your titles!

The Guardian
~~Deck Architect~~
Official Playtester
Tournament Host
Redemption Elder
Redemption Elder

Yeah, you're so cool, you're TWO redemption elders at the same time. That gives you the power to make a ruling official just with your opinion. Shazam!
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Rawrlolsauce! on November 17, 2010, 10:22:02 AM
Jordan has told me that simultaneously meant "within a few miliseconds each other, a bit longer on RTS".
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 17, 2010, 10:28:31 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

I will allow another Elder to confirm this and then we don't need to bother Rob.
+1
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Guardian on November 17, 2010, 01:34:53 PM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

I will allow another Elder to confirm this and then we don't need to bother Rob.

K?THXBYE  :)

Dude, you dont NEED another elder to make rulings... look at all of your titles!

The Guardian
~~Deck Architect~~
Official Playtester
Tournament Host
Redemption Elder
Redemption Elder

Yeah, you're so cool, you're TWO redemption elders at the same time. That gives you the power to make a ruling official just with your opinion. Shazam!

LOL, not sure how that happened but I fixed it so I am only "one" Elder now.  :)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Guardian on November 17, 2010, 01:38:24 PM
I'm sorry Rob has never ruled it  that way so it's not official

To help resolve ruling issues, the following people have authority to making rulings in the game.  If at least two people on the list rule on an issue it can be read with a higher degree of confidence.  Also, if one of these Elders post a ruling and states that the ruling was reached by consensus it can be understood to settle an issue.

1)  Mike Berkenpas, 2)  Tim Maly, 3)  Bryon Hake, 4)  Stephen Schafer, 5) Justin Alstad, 6)  Gabe Isbell, 7)  Kevin Shride, 8 )  Eric Largent,
9)  Chris Bany, 10)  John Michaliszyn, 11)  Rob Anderson, 12)  Roy Cruz, 13) Mark Underwood, 14)  Jordan Alstad

Okay? Okay cool.  :)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Professoralstad on November 17, 2010, 01:49:52 PM
If it makes you feel better, Josh, since I'll be running the next local tournament at North Heights, I will be sure to disallow you from playing SoG and NJ simultaneously, just so you don't go against what you feel should be the case. I wouldn't want you to feel that you are breaking the rules or anything. However, since no one else has ever seemed to have much of an issue with it, I will allow everyone else the opportunity to use them as they always have. Feel better now?
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: SomeKittens on November 17, 2010, 02:26:25 PM
I always have a black hole generator nearby to warp the laws of physics when I need to.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: STAMP on November 17, 2010, 04:42:03 PM
Isn't New Jerusalem basically A New Beginning for God's creation?  Maybe we should rule them consistently.

:P
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: JSB23 on November 17, 2010, 05:04:34 PM
I'm sorry Rob has never ruled it  that way so it's not official

To help resolve ruling issues, the following people have authority to making rulings in the game.  If at least two people on the list rule on an issue it can be read with a higher degree of confidence.  Also, if one of these Elders post a ruling and states that the ruling was reached by consensus it can be understood to settle an issue.

1)  Mike Berkenpas, 2)  Tim Maly, 3)  Bryon Hake, 4)  Stephen Schafer, 5) Justin Alstad, 6)  Gabe Isbell, 7)  Kevin Shride, 8 )  Eric Largent,
9)  Chris Bany, 10)  John Michaliszyn, 11)  Rob Anderson, 12)  Roy Cruz, 13) Mark Underwood, 14)  Jordan Alstad

Okay? Okay cool.  :)
How many times have those people said I am Holy + Chamber works?
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: SomeKittens on November 17, 2010, 05:32:10 PM
Isn't New Jerusalem basically A New Beginning for God's creation?  Maybe we should rule them consistently.

:P
Except there should be entirely new decks, with no evil cards.

Or lost souls, for that matter.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 17, 2010, 05:35:13 PM
... Mark Underwood,...
How many times have those people said I am Holy + Chamber works?
You tell me.  Find some quotes of me saying that IaH + CoA works.

But besides that fact, the fact that there was recently a change in the IaH + CoA ruling doesn't mean anything to this discussion.  I know that the IaH + CoA ruling came from Rob directly, and I think that the SoG/NJ ruling also came from Rob (although this was before I became an elder).  And the system that 2 or more elders agreeing in a ruling thread is authoritative also came from Rob.

So really you shouldn't be having any problems right now.  Everyone who has posted here including multiple elders and multiple REPs all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: STAMP on November 17, 2010, 06:39:19 PM
... all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.

Ergo, SoG/ANB works, too.    ;)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: everytribe on November 17, 2010, 09:04:37 PM
Does the SoG + NJ combo work? becuase it is humanly impossible to play them and make sure they hit the table at the exact same time (Which is what simultaneous means) so it's condition (being played simultaneously) hasn't been fulfilled therefore it shouldn't work.

I'm going to need a ruling from Rob on this one because he's never made an actual ruling on it so it could go either way.

Josh, just play without a NJ in your deck at the next tournament, then you don't have to worry about a ruling. Besides you will just confuse the RLK's like Nathan and Martin.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: ChristianSoldier on November 17, 2010, 10:05:48 PM
Simultaneously has nothing to do with when they hit the table, nothing happens simultaneously in redemption with the exception of SoG and NJ.

Anyway New Jerusalem doesn't say "If you play this card simultaneously..."  it says "Play this card simultaneously..."  therefore for it to make any sense at all you have to play it at the same time, not because of a game rule about dominants hitting the table at the same time but because the card says you can.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on November 17, 2010, 10:27:57 PM
JSB's name is Josh? I didn't know that. My son's name is Joshua.

Hi Josh!  ;D
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: crustpope on November 17, 2010, 10:43:42 PM
... all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.

Ergo, SoG/ANB works, too.    ;)

I concur  ;)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Guardian on November 18, 2010, 04:05:05 AM
... all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.

Ergo, SoG/ANB works, too.    ;)

5 yard penalty for illegal substitution by Stamp.
 :D
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Master_Chi on November 18, 2010, 09:19:07 AM
... all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.

Ergo, SoG/ANB works, too.    ;)

I concur  ;)

Illegal formation on crustpope. 5 yard penalty, repeat 3rd down.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Warrior_Monk on November 18, 2010, 09:27:07 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

K?THXBYE  :)
So, in TEAMS, why can't you and your teammate lay them down together?
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Professoralstad on November 18, 2010, 09:46:54 AM
In Redemption gameplay, "simultaneously" means "together," which is why a player can lay down SoG/NJ as a pair to rescue 2 Lost Souls but a player cannot lay down his NJ with another player's SoG.

K?THXBYE  :)
So, in TEAMS, why can't you and your teammate lay them down together?

That one's pretty much a "Because that's how Rob ruled" ruling. He wanted TEAMS to operate mostly like multiplayer, except with a few extra rulings to allow more interaction among teammates, but SoG/NJ is one thing he decided should not change.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Prof Underwood on November 18, 2010, 11:39:30 AM
So, in TEAMS, why can't you and your teammate lay them down together?
That one's pretty much a "Because that's how Rob ruled" ruling.
+1  In the past, partners in TEAMS could play their SoG/NJ together, but this changed when it became an official category and Rob made that ruling.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: STAMP on November 18, 2010, 12:23:04 PM
... all agree that SoG/NJ works.  Case dismissed.

Ergo, SoG/ANB works, too.    ;)

5 yard penalty for illegal substitution by Stamp.
 :D


(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_FZPMYc0uddk%2FSvmt5r_g2LI%2FAAAAAAAAAmE%2FFX5f6JxvbL8%2Fs400%2Fdisplay_image%255B1%255D.jpg&hash=1d3a56a99f844442cdc20bc8178d2b6776a85c5f)

;)
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on November 18, 2010, 12:31:01 PM
After review of the play, the ruling on the field stands. STAMP is charged with a timeout, and an errata of ANB. The result of the play is two redeemed souls.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Warrior on November 18, 2010, 06:03:56 PM
*Punches Ref*
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: STAMP on November 18, 2010, 06:51:27 PM
*Punches Ref*

In order to provide a less-violent objection, I present:

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Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The Warrior on November 18, 2010, 07:15:48 PM
Peyton:That's Not Right, Can You Change it?
Ref:No
Peyton:Please?
Ref:No......
Peyton:PLEASE
Ref:NO........
Peyton:PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ......
Ref:NO................................................................................
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: The M on November 18, 2010, 07:27:35 PM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.pegasusnews.com%2Fimg%2Fphotos%2F2008%2F12%2F15%2Fref_hit.JPG&hash=6ecd73f8ed691307e141c86d703d4980d6e46017)
I'M RIGHT!
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: SomeKittens on November 18, 2010, 07:39:53 PM
You can clearly see ANB hitting the table before Martyr.
Title: Re: SoG + NJ?
Post by: TheJaylor on November 18, 2010, 08:05:28 PM
i agree with all who disagree with Josh and now that i have posted it it is official. case closed
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