Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Minister Polarius on September 09, 2012, 11:58:35 PM
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Nothing major, but if it could be incorporated into the new set it'd save headache later on. Right now we refer to characters that have been captured as "Captured Characters." This is confusing because it has "character" right in the name, and it can be a hassle explaining how a Captured Character is in no way a Character (or, the "road apple" analogy).
What if we were to refer to them as "Prisoners" from this point forward? It would save space on some SA's and be much more clear that they are now a new card type and not just a Character that has been captured.
The downside is that every card printed up to this point referencing "Captured Character/Hero/Evil Character" would need retconning, but as it's uniform now a simple "X on old cards means Prisoner" clarification would be a painless way to do it.
A fairly minor suggestion, but if it were to be implemented and used on the new cards it'd be easier going forward.
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I'm in favor, and you just have to say "captured character" = "prisoner" like "cannot be blocked by" = "ignore" and so on.
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I like that!
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I really like this idea.
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I could get behind that.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2
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Adds so much more flavor to the game. In favor.
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'Twould be good. Nice idea, Minister!
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Captured demons??
My apologies,
Mr. Thorn in your Side
;)
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How would you separate "captured character" from "captured hero" from "captured evil character" from "captured human" from...?
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Captured hero could be prisoner (hero) or something like that.
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I like it
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I like it.
There are no prisoners in the new set, though. This would have to be a "full rulebook" edit (which is not difficult). The starter decks get a "starter rulebook" which won't include capture/prisoners.
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How would you separate "captured character" from "captured hero" from "captured evil character" from "captured human" from...?
Good Human Prisoner, Evil Prisoner.
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How would you separate "captured character" from "captured hero" from "captured evil character" from "captured human" from...?
Good Human Prisoner, Evil Prisoner.
The problem is that there is no such thing as a "Good" or an "Evil" prisoner--prisoners are neutral. You are right back to the same "road apples are not apples" problem that Pol's suggestion was meant to ameliorate--you have merely shifted the troublesome words from "hero/evil character" to "good/evil." The same thing would also hold for ChristianSoldier's "prisoner (hero)."
I guess I would like to hear Pol's suggestion.
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You are not right back to anything. Heroes are Good and Evil Characters are evil, so while it wouldn't fix the good/evil problem, it would indeed fix a problem without creating another.
Captured human is no problem, that's just human prisoner. The only time it's still difficult is good prisoner and evil prisoner, which is still a bit misnamed, but that's way easier a distinction to explain than no longer being characters.
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A way to fix the Captured Demons issue is to say that all non-human prisoners cannot be redeemed which would mean captured angels can't be redeemed which would be a small price to pay to keep it consitent.
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The rule will translate directly. "Captured Demons cannot be redeemed" simply becomes "Demon Prisoners cannot be redeemed."
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I can see both sides. We are either stuck with having "good" and "evil" describe cards that are "neutral", or we have the word "character(s)" describe cards that are not characters.
At this point, while I liked the idea initially (especially since it hearkened back to the "Take a Hero/EC prisoner" language, which I've always kind of like as a descriptor) I personally don't see enough advantage with MJB's point being valid to have to change the wording of all future cards that mention them, and have to give Play As to that effect to all current cards.
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Why would you need to update the Play As's? Since Play As isn't ever updated anyway. (except when a card comes out... Which begs the question of why they bother a lot of times...)
Anyway, I don't see where there really is an issue. I see places in the Bible where there are Good and Bad prisoners...
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You are not right back to anything. Heroes are Good and Evil Characters are evil, so while it wouldn't fix the good/evil problem, it would indeed fix a problem without creating another.
Captured human is no problem, that's just human prisoner. The only time it's still difficult is good prisoner and evil prisoner, which is still a bit misnamed, but that's way easier a distinction to explain than no longer being characters.
OK.* (The point about human prisoner is more than just "OK" since captured characters currently retain their degree of human-ness.) I guess I didn't really think of this as two separate problems, because it tends to come up once for each player. Once you go through the explanation that a "captured hero" is not a "hero"--for example--everyone understands that means he is neither a "character" nor "good." Since we will still have to run through the same explanation in these cases, is limiting the need for such explanations to just cards that specifically mention an alignment worth having to explain that "captured hero/captured EC" is old-timey wording on existing cards (much like the dreaded "interrupt, prevent and negate")? It may well be.
*I was hoping (and pretty much expecting) that you had a wicked-clever solution to all of this, which is why I wanted to hear your suggestion.
Anyway, I don't see where there really is an issue. I see places in the Bible where there are Good and Bad prisoners...
The problem is you don't see places in the Bible where you get to draw cards (or whatever) based on the number of Evil brigades your opponent has in play. Or turning the argument around--the Bible is also fairly clear that Paul is still a hero (both a character and able to redeem sinners) even when he was spending a goodly amount of time in prison. ;)
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Alternately, we could go captives for captured Evil Characters, hostages for Captured Heroes, and prisoners for the card type of captured characters (or something like that). Less elegant than the original proposition, but solves the problem of good and evil as well. Downside is introducing new "glossary" words, but it's cancled out by the fact that "captured Hero," "Captured Evil Character" and "Captured Character" are simultaneously phased out.
I'm not as pleased with this solution simply because it's less elegant, but it's far more precise.