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Author Topic: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute  (Read 2242 times)

Offline Korunks

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Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« on: June 09, 2010, 10:40:50 AM »
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So my opponent place the Site Guard Lost soul in a site and places an EC face down on the site.  I play Land Dispute on My next turn and choose that site.  What happens to the EC?  I am pretty sure the lost soul gets placed in his land of bondage(correct?), but have no idea if I get to take the EC too, if I do can I use it in battle?  I am having trouble finding info on this in the REG.

Cards involved:

Psalms 35:20 ('site guard')

Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When you place this card in a Site, you may put an Evil Character face down from hand, The Darkness or Tartaros on that Site. During a rescue attempt at that Site, you may add that Character to the battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Psalms 35:20 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 13)

Land Dispute

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 1 / 3 • Class: Territory • Special Ability: If used by a Philistine, take an opponent's Site. If he doesn't have one, discard one of his Fortresses instead. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 26:20 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2010, 11:33:19 AM »
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I remember reading a thread about this a while ago, but I didn't read the outcome. I'll go look for it.

edit: http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=21542.0
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2010, 01:20:28 PM »
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So If I don't get to use it what happens to it?  Discard pile?
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2010, 03:38:50 PM »
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Quote from: Korunks on June 09, 2010, 01:20:28 PM
So If I don't get to use it what happens to it?  Discard pile?
It would just stay there, unusable on the site.  However, if your opponent somehow was able to steal the site back (ie. with their own Land Dispute), then it would go back to their territory and they could then use the EC.
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Offline Korunks

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2010, 04:00:20 PM »
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Well this brings up another interesting question, if my opponent steals the site, why can't the original owner still use the EC and add it to the defense of their rescue attempt?
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2010, 04:28:28 PM »
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Quote from: Korunks on June 09, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
why can't the original owner still use the EC and add it to the defense of their rescue attempt?
Because you don't control cards that are on your opponent's side of the table :)
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Offline TheJaylor

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2010, 06:06:46 PM »
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I think the evil character is discarded because it is the same with the darkness when you discard with let's say Romans destroy Jerusalem the evil Character is discarded as well
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2010, 06:08:57 PM »
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Quote from: KoalaKingofFortressAlstad on June 09, 2010, 06:06:46 PM
I think the evil character is discarded because it is the same with the darkness when you discard with let's say Romans destroy Jerusalem the evil Character is discarded as well
I believe cards that are placed follow the card they are placed on.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2010, 06:15:06 PM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 09, 2010, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Korunks on June 09, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
why can't the original owner still use the EC and add it to the defense of their rescue attempt?
Because you don't control cards that are on your opponent's side of the table :)

Then how does Boasting of Wisdom work?

Place on a Hero. Negate that Hero's special ability while this card remains. Blocker may discard this card to discard all Enhancements used by that Hero.

I cant just randomly discard my opponents cards, yet I'm allowed to discard that card I placed in my opponents territory.

Abom is another example:

If used by a Greek, place in opponent's territory. Each time opponent draws cards (except during draw phase), you may discard a card in that territory except a Lost Soul.

Doesn't the "You" mean the holder is still the controller?

Also, when cards such as Leprosy and Sowing the Seed reduce a character to */0 or lower, the owner of the card gets to pick which character it moves to next.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2010, 10:13:12 PM »
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Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 09, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 09, 2010, 04:28:28 PM
Because you don't control cards that are on your opponent's side of the table :)
Then how does Boasting of Wisdom work?

Place on a Hero. Negate that Hero's special ability while this card remains. Blocker may discard this card to discard all Enhancements used by that Hero.
This would not be "controlling" a card in the sense of using it again.  It is really just a triggered affect that has already been set in motion when you first played the card, and which you are simply carrying out later.

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 09, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
Abom is another example:

If used by a Greek, place in opponent's territory. Each time opponent draws cards (except during draw phase), you may discard a card in that territory except a Lost Soul.
This is also not really "controlling" a card in the sense of using it again.  It is really just a triggered affect that has already been set in motion when you first played Abom, and which you are simply carrying out each time the trigger is activated again.

Neither one of these examples actually have you moving a card (ie. putting into battle, or setting it aside, etc.).  So in effect you don't really "control" the card anymore, you only "control" the choice of targets that come from it's special ability.

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 09, 2010, 06:15:06 PM
Also, when cards such as Leprosy and Sowing the Seed reduce a character to */0 or lower, the owner of the card gets to pick which character it moves to next.
This seems more of an exception in that you do actually move the card onto a character of your choice.  Really I'm not sure how to explain these.  This makes me question whether my initial understanding was wrong.  Any other Elders or REPs out there that have another idea?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2010, 01:51:16 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 09, 2010, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Korunks on June 09, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
why can't the original owner still use the EC and add it to the defense of their rescue attempt?
Because you don't control cards that are on your opponent's side of the table :)

Generally speaking you control cards that are on your side of the table (your territory, side of battle, set aside area, land of Redemption, etc).  Cards targeted by place abilities are an exception to that rule in that placed cards are controlled by the player that placed them regardless of where on the table they are.

The reason the original owner can't add the EC to the defense of their rescue attempt is that you cannot use an "add to battle" ability to add a card to a side of battle controlled by an opponent.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2010, 01:53:11 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on June 10, 2010, 01:51:16 PM
Hey,

Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 09, 2010, 04:28:28 PM
Quote from: Korunks on June 09, 2010, 04:00:20 PM
why can't the original owner still use the EC and add it to the defense of their rescue attempt?
Because you don't control cards that are on your opponent's side of the table :)

Generally speaking you control cards that are on your side of the table (your territory, side of battle, set aside area, land of Redemption, etc).  Cards targeted by place abilities are an exception to that rule in that placed cards are controlled by the player that placed them regardless of where on the table they are.

The reason the original owner can't add the EC to the defense of their rescue attempt is that you cannot use an "add to battle" ability to add a card to a side of battle controlled by an opponent.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

So then how do Second Seal and Siege work? My ability is causing characters to be added to the opponents side of the battle.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2010, 02:08:50 PM »
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Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 10, 2010, 01:53:11 PM
So then how do Second Seal and Siege work? My ability is causing characters to be added to the opponents side of the battle.
Ah, I know this one.  You can only add cards to your side of the battle unless a card's special ability specifically states otherwise (ie. Seige).
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browarod

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2010, 06:29:29 PM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on June 10, 2010, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 10, 2010, 01:53:11 PM
So then how do Second Seal and Siege work? My ability is causing characters to be added to the opponents side of the battle.
Ah, I know this one.  You can only add cards to your side of the battle unless a card's special ability specifically states otherwise (ie. Seige).
I don't see how "opponent's Evil Characters in play must join the battle" is anymore "specifically stated" than "you may add that Character to the battle". Second Seal follows the game rule that heroes can only band to a hero side of battle and ECs can only band to an EC side so why doesn't the site guard LS's ability follow the same rule?
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Site Guard LS vs Land Dispute
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2010, 09:32:31 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on June 10, 2010, 01:53:11 PM
So then how do Second Seal and Siege work? My ability is causing characters to be added to the opponents side of the battle.

I have a theory on this, but I haven't run it past the PTB yet, so I'll just give the short answer here and not the whole theory.

The Site Guard Lost Soul has an add to battle ability.  Siege has a banding ability.  You cannot use an "add to battle" ability to add a card to a side of battle controlled by an opponent.  That rule does not apply to Siege because Siege is not an "add to battle" ability.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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