Author Topic: Simon the Zelot vs. Emperor Galba/Rome (Read 2175 times)

megamanlan · « **on:** February 12, 2012, 04:02:02 AM »

I just want to clarify if this is right, but if Simon the Zealot shoots my Rome and I use Galba to recur it, is it still Negated or not?

Simon the Zealot
7/4 Red/Purple Hero
Luke 6:13-15, Disciple
Negate and Discard Rome and an NT Idol. First Strike. Protect your Hand and Deck from Opponents while this Hero remains in play.

Rome
Evil Fortress
Romans 1:15
Your Emperors have First Strike and may use NT Enhancements of any evil brigade (except Orange)

Emperor Galba
10/1 Gray Warrior Class Evil Character
Josephus: Wars of the Jews, Chapter 6, Roman Emperor
Each Opponent must Discard a card from Hand. You may Search Deck or Discard Pile for Rome and put it in play.

Townsend · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:17:33 AM »

I think it would be negated until the battle phase is over. But I don't know...

Praeceps · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2012, 09:09:35 AM »

Quote from: mjwaree5 on February 12, 2012, 06:17:33 AM

I think it would be negated until the battle phase is over. But I don't know...

Indeed. Simon's Negate is an ongoing ability and would negate Rome no matter how many times it was discarded and put back on the table during that battle phase.

megamanlan · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:41:02 PM »

Okay. I wasn't sure if when it's a Negate/Discard if it affects cards put back in play later.

STAMP · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:19:48 PM »

That would be suicide for your Rome because it would be prevented from activating and thus do nothing for the rest of the game.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:28:38 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2012, 02:19:48 PM

That would be suicide for your Rome because it would be prevented from activating and thus do nothing for the rest of the game.

What precedent do you have for that ruling?

STAMP · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:35:22 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on February 12, 2012, 02:28:38 PM

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
That would be suicide for your Rome because it would be prevented from activating and thus do nothing for the rest of the game.

What precedent do you have for that ruling?

By rule, fortresses are played and activate in the prep phase. They do not continually activate each turn like artifacts. If you activate a fortress during the battle phase, it does not re-activate on your next prep phase. So if you prevent the activation of a fortress put in play, it's SA does nothing until the card is taken out of play and re-played later in the game. The identifiers still work, of course.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:42:33 PM »

No offense, STAMP, but I would like to hear Elder confirmation that Rome would not activate on the owner's next turn. You may indeed be right, but that's not what I would have ruled.

STAMP · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:44:34 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on February 12, 2012, 02:42:33 PM

No offense, STAMP, but I would like to hear Elder confirmation that Rome would not activate on the owner's next turn. You may indeed be right, but that's not what I would have ruled.

None taken.

EVERY statement I make generally needs to be run by an Elder first. It's a given.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:47:35 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2012, 02:44:34 PM

None taken. EVERY statement I make generally needs to be run by an Elder first. It's a given.

I think overall that you have a better track record of being right than I do.

STAMP · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:49:56 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on February 12, 2012, 02:47:35 PM

Quote from: STAMP on February 12, 2012, 02:44:34 PM
None taken. EVERY statement I make generally needs to be run by an Elder first. It's a given.

I think overall that you have a better track record of being right than I do.

That's only with older rulings. With my diminishing short-term memory, I miss on most of the newer rules.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:24:56 PM »

Quote

STAMP is correct as per the Destructive Sin v. Fishing Boat ruling. If Destructive Sin is in a territory when Fishing Boat is played, Fishing Boat sits in the territory - not Set-Aside - and cannot do anything. There's no precedent to assume that even once Destructive Sin is negated and discarded that Fishing Boat would reactivate during a different phase or turn. I see no reason that this would be any different.

This is the paragraph I wrote, but as I finished it, I realized I do see a reason it would be different: the "place in set-aside" ability on Fishing Boat is instant, whereas Rome's abilities are ongoing. I'm pretty sure STAMP is still correct, since there's no precedent for allowing a fortress to reactive in a different turn, but I'm less sure about it now.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:39:38 PM »

Stamp is not correct as written. Fortresses activate upon entering play, regardless of phase. However, he is correct that they only activate once, and can not continually activate each phase. In this situation, you could retrieve Rome, but it's ability would be negated, meaning it would not activate, and only the identifiers would work.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #13 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:43:10 PM »

I can see why destructive sin would stop Fishing Boat from being put in set aside, but I think ongoing and instant abilities should work differently in this case, since Rome's ability is ongoing it should be negated for the phase, but after the phase its no longer being negated, in the fishing boat's case it's not being negated anymore, but it's too late to be set aside, (although nothing on Fishing Boat says it shouldn't work from in territory).

I do however think that playing to Set Aside should be an identifier rather than an instant ability that activates when they are played.

STAMP · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:03:28 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on February 12, 2012, 03:39:38 PM

Stamp is not correct as written. Fortresses activate upon entering play, regardless of phase. However, he is correct that they only activate once, and can not continually activate each phase. In this situation, you could retrieve Rome, but it's ability would be negated, meaning it would not activate, and only the identifiers would work.

Even when I'm right I can't be COMPLETELY right.

Thanks for brightening my day.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:23:45 PM »

I think the "if a SA is prevented when played, it never re-activates" is one of the least-known, most important top-down rules. However, I don't know that anyone's thought to question whether LS's activate every turn/phase or only when played, as the FbtN LS and other forms of LS negation make it an important question.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2012, 09:38:07 AM »

Does an SA reactivate if interrupted? For instance, if my opponent plays Image of Jealousy on my Herod's Temple, can I use Passover Hymn in a later turn to reactivate HT?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2012, 09:43:38 AM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on February 13, 2012, 09:38:07 AM

Does an SA reactivate if interrupted? For instance, if my opponent plays Image of Jealousy on my Herod's Temple, can I use Passover Hymn in a later turn to reactivate HT?

Yes. You're negating the negate, and it was an interrupt, not prevent.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:56:53 PM »

That is correct. However, if DS were out when a Fortress were played, later negating DS would not activate the fortress since you'd be negating a prevent, not an interrupt.

megamanlan · « **Reply #19 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:43:21 PM »

I thought it was that if u Negate a Prevent ability the card that was Prevented isn't Prevented anymore and it works then.

But Im sure that if a Fortress is put in play it immediately activates, same with if you play a card that plays an Artifact unless it states Upon Activation.

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Author Topic: Simon the Zelot vs. Emperor Galba/Rome (Read 2175 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy