Cactus Game Design Message Boards

The Silver Trumpets reads:

When your priest has initiative during a rescue attempt, you may band a human OT hero from your territory into battle or interrupt the battle and return your heroes in battle to hand. May be used twice.

QUESTION 1:  When it says "has initiative" does that also include "special initiative" when your priest(s) are about to be removed by something?

QUESTION 2: What if your opponent has the FORSAKEN lost soul out? Would that negate the banding ability generated by the Trumpets?

Thank you.

1. Yes. But keep in mind that during special initiative you can only use an interrupt or negate so the band ability cannot be used during special initiative.

2. Can you post the ability? I'm not super familiar with the newer lost soul names-to-abilities. If the lost soul negates banding then yes it would negate the band portion of Silver Trumpets.

NEGATE OPPONENTS' BAND ABILITIES.

1. No. Special initiative only lets you play interrupts from hand for some reason.

Nope. Idk why but that's how they did it.

*EDIT* Tehcnically a lot of the time you can, because "negate last played" will be able to work even after the SI window has closed, but there are certain situations in which it matters.

So, how do I know who is right?

Consult the REG!  From the definition of Special Initiative:

"When this occurs, suspend the card causing the removal, additional abilities waiting to activate, and any triggers (currently active ongoing abilities remain active). The player with their character(s) being removed has the opportunity to play an Enhancement that will interrupt or negate the ability that is causing the removal (or that triggered the corresponding game rule). The enhancement played must be able to interrupt or negate the removing ability.  If the card with the removing ability was already removed from play due to its ability, it may still be targeted during Special Initiative by an enhancement that specifically targets its card type."

Special initiative only allows you to play an enhancement that interrupts or negates the ability causing the special initiative.  Silver Trumpets could not be activated.

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To contrast, here is the entry for Initiative:

"Initiative
A player with initiative may play the next enhancement. Initiative is always given to the player who is losing the current battle. The losing player cannot pass initiative.  When there is a stalemate or a mutual destruction, the player who did not play the last card has initiative, but he must pass initiative if he does not play a card."

The two refer to different things.  Initiative only applies to battle where each player controls at least 1 character, and no abilities are removing all characters on one side of battle from the battle.  This is what Silver Trumpets is referring to.

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Gam's Speech and similar cards (assuming they are already in play) basically work just like any enhancement played by Special Initiative, with a few notable exceptions; Herod Agrippa II is the best example.

Special initiative only allows you to play an enhancement that interrupts or negates the ability causing the special initiative.  Silver Trumpets could not be activated.

This must be a newer rule, since I've seen Trumpets played in the past where it can return Heroes to escape evil battlewinners. Unless we've always played it wrong.

This seems incongruous with how Cov w Noah is always played when it's an artifact. Why would Silver Trumpets' interrupt and return not be able to be used when Cov w Noah can be?

I believe Silver Trumpets was initially intended (and for awhile worked as intended) to be able to interrupt a battle winner and return your heroes. Since "special initiative" was codified and explicitly defined, however, it no longer is able to function in that way. As such, the interrupt on Trumpets is (except in rare circumstances) meaningless.

CoN could be used once the Hero abilities resolve.