Author Topic: Trembling Demon (Read 2550 times)

Josh · « **on:** May 16, 2010, 05:34:42 PM »

Is it implied that, anytime a phrase gives a way for the opponent to negate an ability, such as with Trembling Demon, it really means "Cannot be negated unless opponent takes random action described by this card"?

Trembling Demon - "If no good Enhancements are played this battle, protect all Lost Souls from Rescue. Opponent may discard a good Enhancement from hand to Negate this."

D-man · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:39:34 PM »

No. I might be wrong, but if it was CBN, wouldn't it say so?

Also, Sinning Hand can be negated in a similar way, but it contains the extra phrase "otherwise, it cannot be interrupted".

Josh · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:43:35 PM »

Quote from: D-man on May 16, 2010, 05:39:34 PM

No. I might be wrong, but if it was CBN, wouldn't it say so?

Also, Sinning Hand can be negated in a similar way, but it contains the extra phrase "otherwise, it cannot be interrupted".

Yeah, I saw the ability on Sinning Hand, and the clause it had at the end where it said "Otherwise it cannot be interrupted". I wondered if this was repetitive language that was left off of future cards (like TD) because it was implied now. Since they are trying to keep abilities as short as possible, it makes sense.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:45:13 PM »

I think its funny how Trembling Demon would be less powerful if it were CBN.

D-man · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:46:51 PM »

Antiochus IV Epiphanes is from a later set (RoA) and also has that wording. His SA reads "If another Greek Evil Character is in play, discard a Hero. Opponent may discard a card of matching brigade from hand or territory instead. Cannot be negated."

Josh · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2010, 05:57:57 PM »

I guess I've always thought there were two ways to interpret TD's ability.

1. Discarding a good enhancement from hand is one way to negate TD's ability. All other ways (FBTN heroes, Consuming Fire, etc.) still work.
2. Discarding a good enhancement from hand is the ONLY way to negate TD's ability, and thus if that part of his ability is negated (like with Holy of Holies), then the first part cannot be negated.

My question is, what is the reason the second one is used? It doesn't say "Otherwise, this cannot be negated" or anything like that. With Holy of Holies active, his ability is "If no good Enhancements are played this battle, protect all Lost Souls from Rescue." I don't see why Blessings or some other card like that can't negate TD's ability when Holy of Holies is active.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:00:18 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on May 16, 2010, 05:57:57 PM

I guess I've always thought there were two ways to interpret TD's ability.

1. Discarding a good enhancement from hand is one way to negate TD's ability. All other ways (FBTN heroes, Consuming Fire, etc.) still work.
2. Discarding a good enhancement from hand is the ONLY way to negate TD's ability, and thus if that part of his ability is negated (like with Holy of Holies), then the first part cannot be negated.

My question is, what is the reason the second one is used? It doesn't say "Otherwise, this cannot be negated" or anything like that. With Holy of Holies active, his ability is "If no good Enhancements are played this battle, protect all Lost Souls from Rescue." I don't see why Blessings or some other card like that can't negate TD's ability when Holy of Holies is active.

Are you saying that Moses does not negate Trembling Demon?

Josh · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:04:21 PM »

Are you saying that Moses does not negate Trembling Demon?
[/quote]

Well if Holy of Holies is active, then Moses' ability is also negated. All I was saying was, from what I had read on TD, it sounded like everyone was saying that he is a 100% effective autoblock if Holy of Holies is active, because it made his ability CBN. I wanted clarification on this - perhaps I misunderstood what they were saying. But from reading TD's ability, I can't see where he gets CBN if the second clause of his SA just goes away via Holy of Holies.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:06:14 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on May 16, 2010, 06:04:21 PM

But from reading TD's ability, I can't see where he gets CBN if the second clause of his SA just goes away via Holy of Holies.

I can't see why anyone would ever play it that way.

Josh · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:15:34 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on May 16, 2010, 06:06:14 PM

Quote from: jmhartz on May 16, 2010, 06:04:21 PM
But from reading TD's ability, I can't see where he gets CBN if the second clause of his SA just goes away via Holy of Holies.
I can't see why anyone would ever play it that way.

All right, I guess I misunderstood then.

So hypothetically, if Moses' ability was somehow CBN, and Holy of Holies was active, then TD's ability would be negated by Moses' ability?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2010, 06:17:21 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on May 16, 2010, 06:15:34 PM

So hypothetically, if Moses' ability was somehow CBN, and Holy of Holies was active, then TD's ability would be negated by Moses' ability?

Yep.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #11 on:** May 17, 2010, 01:03:17 AM »

More realistic example:

Trembling Demon blocks and HoH is up. I play The Might of Faith: Negate the special ability on an Evil character in battle. Cannot be prevented by an evil card.

His ability would be negated.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #12 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:34:57 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 17, 2010, 01:03:17 AM

More realistic example:

Trembling Demon blocks and HoH is up. I play The Might of Faith: Negate the special ability on an Evil character in battle. Cannot be prevented by an evil card.

His ability would be negated.

Lol, would it need to be by then?

crustpope · « **Reply #13 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:41:38 AM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 17, 2010, 01:03:17 AM

More realistic example:

Trembling Demon blocks and HoH is up. I play The Might of Faith: Negate the special ability on an Evil character in battle. Cannot be prevented by an evil card.

His ability would be negated.

Not quite realistic because you would have had to d/c a G enhancement to get the chance to even play the might of faith....which is what bubble boy was trying to say

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:46:32 AM »

Actually, what I was saying was, if you ever do get the chance to play an enhancement (which is possible if you RA with a hero with 2 or less offense), then why play the Might of Faith? Why not play anything else, since playing an enhancement at all makes TD's ability worthless?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #15 on:** May 17, 2010, 10:21:25 AM »

Whoops...

redemptioncousin · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2010, 12:31:33 PM »

A more realistic example is playing Consuming Fire as a territory class enhancement and negating orange. Even if HoH is up, TD's ability wouldn't work because Consuming Fire prevents it and it is preventable.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** May 17, 2010, 01:19:40 PM »

Someone having Consuming Fire in his deck is never a realistic example.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2010, 01:41:56 PM »

I play Consuming Fire in my angels deck. Because Angels need all the help they can get. Now if only there was a way to recur it, over and over again

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #19 on:** May 17, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 17, 2010, 01:41:56 PM

Now if only there was a way to recur it, over and over again

spoiler?

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #20 on:** May 17, 2010, 03:49:47 PM »

Nah, just wishful thinking

Rob would shoot me if I actually spoiled what little I know

Bryon would laugh it off, then shoot me if I actually spoiled what little I know

Bany would disown me from MN if I actually spoiled what little I know

- Oh, and then shoot me.

Korunks · « **Reply #21 on:** May 17, 2010, 05:04:58 PM »

If they did shoot you, that means they came loaded for bear

galadgawyn · « **Reply #22 on:** May 17, 2010, 08:09:52 PM »

People are generally referring to it as an autoblock with HoH active because you just let Trembling Demon die by the numbers and the opponent never gets initiative to play an enhancement to negate it. As stated, they would have to rescue with a hero of 2 offence or less to get initiative but if you have Crown of Thorns active then even that won't work. There are a couple ways to still beat it but it is fairly effective.

SirNobody · « **Reply #23 on:** May 18, 2010, 01:20:09 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 17, 2010, 03:49:47 PM

Rob would shoot me if I actually spoiled what little I know
Bryon would laugh it off, then shoot me if I actually spoiled what little I know
Bany would disown me from MN if I actually spoiled what little I know - Oh, and then shoot me.

I think I'll shoot you first and then plant evidence on your body that suggests you were planning to spoil what you know.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

News:

Author Topic: Trembling Demon (Read 2550 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Warrior_Monk