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Offline Bobbert

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SI Negated
« on: January 17, 2019, 09:55:56 PM »
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If a special initiative interrupt is itself negated (via Woes), does the player still have SI?

Ex: Player 1 is rescuing, player 2 blocks. P1 plays a battlewinner, P2 plays Lurking and bands to a battlewinning evil character. P1 negates Lurking, kicking the second blocker out of battle and allowing their battlewinner to reactivate. Does P2 still have special initiative?

Separate question stemming from a similar situation: if in the above scenario P1 (after their hero is removed from battle but before battle resolution starts) uses Second Coming to find Woes, does P2 get a Dull trigger from TSC's search before P1 plays Woes (in the above scenario this would allow them to find another negate)?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2019, 09:59:55 PM »
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For #1 when you say a "battlewinning EC" do you mean an EC whose ability is removing the Hero (i.e. Doeg) or just an EC whose numbers give regular initiative back to the Hero?

For question 2, yes, TSC would trigger a Dull search prior to Woes being able to be played.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2019, 10:00:43 PM »
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The former - the EC banded in removes the hero from battle.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2019, 10:04:37 PM »
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In that instance, the Hero would only have SI to interrupt/negate the banded in EC.

SI could not be used to negate Lurking unless the card also interrupted the EC as well.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2019, 10:05:06 PM »
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Also, you should jump on Lackey so we can play T2.  :thumbup:
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2019, 10:31:33 PM »
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I still haven't finished a T2 deck yet.... SoonTM

That being said, if they did 3W the EC, what happens? My understanding is that since P2 already played their interrupt (Lurking) against P1's initial battlewinner that caused SI, and that was never negated, P2 wouldn't have anotherchance to negate. Is that correct?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2019, 10:50:55 PM »
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Quote
This only occurs once per completion of an effect of an opponent’s ability. If a removing
effect is negated (or cannot reactivate after an interrupt effect is played) and the negate (or
interrupt effect that prevented reactivation) is later undone such that the original removing
effect reactivates, this would trigger a separate instance of Special Initiative.

This is under the Special Initiative section of the REG.
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Fortress Alstad
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Offline Bobbert

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2019, 11:28:52 PM »
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I'm sorry, I'm still confused.

If I play Lurking during SI, and band to Doeg (with Saul in play), that doesn't undo the interrupt from Lurking. If Doeg is negated, does the battlewinner that Lurking (which still hasn't been negated) interrupted reactivate?

Also, my understanding was that when Woes is used in SI it's after the target completes (since you can't play doms during SI), so would there actually be a problem with it targeting Lurking instead of Doeg?
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Offline The Schaefer

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2019, 04:03:18 AM »
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I think you're just overthinking it. SI doesnt change how interrupts function so once the interrupting is done the ability that was interrupted would complete. Adding instances of SI dont change that. So provided the intial battle winner isnt negated then after Doeg is negated the interrupt portion of lurking will have completed as the Band is finally completed (SI just delayed this) thus the original removing ability will be pending to remove you character from battle thus granting you a new instance of SI.

Just a semantics thing but woes cant be used in SI. Only enhancements can and doms also have to have other abilities complete fully before they can take activation. So woes would have to be played after the battlewinning effect took place but still could negate the card as you still have the ability to play a dominant and provided the battlewinner is in play. This matters mostly for cards like The Flood which banish themselves this are out of play upon completion.
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Offline Josh

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Re: SI Negated
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2019, 07:41:48 AM »
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Quote from: Bobbert on January 17, 2019, 11:28:52 PM
I'm sorry, I'm still confused.

If I play Lurking during SI, and band to Doeg (with Saul in play), that doesn't undo the interrupt from Lurking. If Doeg is negated, does the battlewinner that Lurking (which still hasn't been negated) interrupted reactivate?

Also, my understanding was that when Woes is used in SI it's after the target completes (since you can't play doms during SI), so would there actually be a problem with it targeting Lurking instead of Doeg?

Let me see if I understand.

I play GE battlewinner on my hero
Opponent gets SI, plays Lurking, bands to Doeg, discards the hero that played GE
I get SI, I play a GE that negates Doeg

At that point, yes, as long as my second GE doesn't then grant my opponent SI again, my first GE kicks in and reactivates.

In fact, if there were 2 or more heroes in battle when Doeg discarded a hero, and the first GE could activate on the hero left in battle, that GE would reactivate immediately upon Doeg's resolution, as no SI was generated by Doeg.
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