Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Hey,

"Captured characters" are not characters.  Don't treat them as such.

"captured character" is a subgroup of Lost Soul, not a subgroup of character.

I completely agree on the captured characters are not characters part.  But as far as captured characters and lost souls, I believe it would be more accurate to say they they are two distinct groups that have a significant portion of overlap.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

Yes, you are both right.  I forgot about captured characters in RC.

Though, STAMP would argue that a captured demon is ONLY a captured demon, and not a redeemable soul.

"Captured characters" are not characters.  Don't treat them as such.

Also, road apples are not apples, cow pies are not pies, and peanuts are not nuts (botanically, anyway).

"captured character" is a subgroup of Lost Soul, not a subgroup of character.

Okay so captured characters cant "hold" there weapons in raiders camp correct? Is that the only reason why the weapon is discarded?

I don't understand what you mean by "only reason".  Characters hold weapons.  Non-characters do not hold weapons.  A captured character cannot hold a weapon any more than a Lost Soul or a Curse or a Dominant could hold it.

aww does that mean no warrior class doubt?

Obviously not.

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on September 07, 2008, 03:59:09 PM

Can Heroes hold evil weapons?

No, due to the rule that evil enhancements may not be played on heroes, and visa-versa.

What if the weapon is played when the character was a evil character, and now the character is a hero what happens to the weapon?

... which is specifically written out in the rulebook.

I was just making the point that in one situation the weapon is discarded because of the bearer not being eligible, and in conversion the weapon by follows the character even though the bearer isn't eligible only by game rule why make a game rule for one and not the other?

um... why do you say the bearer isn't eligible?  A character can hold a weapon.  That is the rule.
A Hero is a character.  A Hero holding a weapon follows the rule properly.
An Evil Character is a character.  An Evil Character holding a weapon follows the rule properly.
A Lost Soul is not a character.  A Lost Soul NOT holding a weapon follows the rule properly.

So where is the problem?

why isn't the captured character in raiders camp a subset of a hero? Raiders camp changes the destination of the hero

So I can band to one of your Heroes in Raider's Camp?

Also, from a logic perspective, would you allow a captured enemy to continue holding his weapon?

I've heard this somewhere before... hmm

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on September 04, 2008, 08:21:10 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on September 04, 2008, 08:12:54 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on September 04, 2008, 08:11:15 PM

It is a character.

Captured Character =/= Character. You cant band to a captured character can you? You cant CM a captured character can you? Then why should a placed enhancement remain on them?

Thats like saying: The elephant is fat. why should I put my cat on a diet? Besides what cards say may band to a male cahracter? (I thing I know what you are trying to say though) I cant band to a hero in raiders camp because it cannot be targeted as a hero. I played the weapon before when it was a hero, I see no reason why the weapon should be discarded, Shaefs suggestion supports this.

what kinda captors would allow someone to carry a spear around?

Also, from a logic perspective, would you allow a captured enemy to continue holding his weapon?

No I wouldn't.


"So I can band to one of your Heroes in Raider's Camp?"

You cant because captured heroes arn't characters(game rule), I think it is more intuituve to say the captured character in raiders camp is still a character but it cant hold weapons for obvious reasons. In this case you still cant band to my character because the hero is a captured hero (cant be targeted as just a hero).

You cant because captured heroes arn't characters(game rule)

I know that already.  I was asking you to think through all the implications of saying a captured Hero in Raider's Camp is still a "Hero".

I think it is more intuituve to say the captured character in raiders camp is still a character but it cant hold weapons for obvious reasons.

I do not know what those obvious reasons are, that's why I need you to explain them to me.  As far as I can tell, you want the captured-but-still-a-character to have a rule saying he can't hold weapons just because he shouldn't be able to hold weapons, and all I've been hearing lately is that having rules (supposedly) just for the sake of having rules is a dumb idea and bad for the game.  So I don't understand why we should change captured characters to regular characters and then make new rules about how they are treated in RC or Spiritual Realm or Tartaros.

In this case you still cant band to my character because the hero is a captured hero (cant be targeted as just a hero).

Again, I don't understand why you want the captured guy to be called a Hero but not allow him to be targeted by things which target a Hero.  That being the case, there's no real reason to bother calling him a Hero in the first place.

Referring to them as characters makes these cards targetable just like any other character, and creating new exceptions to the in-play targeting rule creates a needless extra layer of complexity.

Referring to them only as "captured characters" as a special type means you cannot use cards that target characters (which is what we want) but you can still apply container/holder rules (which is what we want) and target "captured characters" as written on the special ability (which is what we want).  The natural consequence of that is, not being a character, they cannot hold a weapon.

This is no different than Lost Souls being "converted" into Redeemed Souls, a special type of card which only appears in-game when a certain event takes place (i.e. it being rescued), which does not allow them to be hit by cards that target Lost Souls, but allows references to "Redeemed Souls" on the special ability (Falling Away, Garden Tomb).