Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Master KChief on January 11, 2010, 02:58:18 PM
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i block a rescue attempt with seven wicked spirits and exchange it with an evil character in my opponents territory. my opponent then makes the battles by the numbers (we'll just say by banding in the strong angel). are the evil characters 'unexchanged'?
Seven Wicked Spirits
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Orange • Ability: 7 / 7 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may interrupt all Fortresses and exchange this Evil Character with any other Evil Character in play or set-aside area. • Identifiers: Generic NT Male Demon • Verse: Luke 11:26 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 8 )
The Strong Angel
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 10 / 8 • Class: None • Special Ability: All special abilities on character cards and enhancement cards except this one are interrupted and prevented. Battle is determined by the numbers. • Identifiers: NT Male Angel • Verse: Revelation 5:2 • Availability: Warriors booster packs (Rare)
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Yes, the BTN ability targets all cards in play. The territory is in play so SWS is negated. If you had exchanged SWS with a character in a set-aside area the exchange would not be negated because SWS would be out of play.
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What if he was exchanged into KOTW?
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Hey,
What if he was exchanged into KOTW?
Kingdoms has a protect ability. You can't protect from being negated.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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You can't protect from being negated.
Why can't I negate AoCP then?
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Hey,
You can't protect from being negated.
Why can't I negate AoCP then?
Because AoCP doesn't have a protect ability. It has a cannot be negated ability.
Tschow,
Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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The phrase, "cannot be" is a protect. Lydia is protected from capture because of her ability which says, "cannot be captured." AoCP cannot be negated because it protects from negation.
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I dont think that argument will hold much ground.
CBP, CBI, and CBN are specifically designed protections that stop prevents, interrupts, and negates. No other protection ability stops negates.
Also, I thought FBTN only targeted people in battle.
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CBP, CBI, and CBN are specifically designed protections that stop prevents, interrupts, and negates. No other protection ability stops negates.
That's not any different than what I am saying...
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Your previous posts made me think you were trying to negate AoCP, because negates "go through protection", and CBN is a type of protection. What were you trying to say then?
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What were you trying to say then?
You can protect from being negated.
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Ooooh. Well, what Maly was only refering to KotW being unable to protect from negates.
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Yes, I know. I only said something because I was bored at the time. However, the fact remains that it is possible to protect from negation.
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Ah, sorry for the confusion. :D
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The phrase, "cannot be" is a protect. Lydia is protected from capture because of her ability which says, "cannot be captured." AoCP cannot be negated because it protects from negation.
Are you sure about that? Lydia's ability says "Lydia is protected from capture." It seems like CBI/P/N are not protects like other protects. Maybe because interrupt, prevent, and negate affect special abilities whereas capture, convert, discard, etc. affect cards? I don't know. "Cannot be interrupted" seems more like a status than a protect, imho.
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http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/lydia.htm (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/lydia.htm)
The original Lydia says, "cannot be taken prisoner."
In addition the REG states that "cannot be" is a protect phrase. This can be found by going to: Ongoing abilities > Protect > Clarifications.
When you click on the link that is "cannot be" on that REG page you get the following:
Cannot be
This is a protect ability. Cannot be taken prisoner, discarded, removed from the game, captured, or converted limits or protects the potential targets of the ability, just as ignore or immune or protect limits or protects the potential targets of the ability. For example, Elizabeth Elisabeths special ability, “cannot be taken prisoner,” could be understood as “immune to capture.” “Cannot be” does not “prevent” or “negate” anything. It only limits the potential targets of a special ability. An Evil Character blocking Elizabeth Elisabeth could still use Net to capture a Hero other than Elizabeth Elisabeth. Note: If the special ability of a card includes the words “cannot” or “may not” WITHOUT the word “be”, then this is a type of prevent. For instance, if a card states that Heroes may not band, this is not a protect, but a prevent because of the lack of the word” be”. Heroes would be PREVENTED from banding.
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In regards to Lydia, using older cards (that have a newer version(s) printed) as evidence on a wording argument isn't the smartest thing to be doing :P
In regards to the other thing,............... you've got me there....
Though, in regards to this part:
When you click on the link that is "cannot be" on that REG page you get the following:
Cannot be
This is a protect ability. Cannot be taken prisoner, discarded, removed from the game, captured, or converted limits or protects the potential targets of the ability, just as ignore or immune or protect limits or protects the potential targets of the ability. For example, Elizabeth Elisabeths special ability, “cannot be taken prisoner,” could be understood as “immune to capture.” “Cannot be” does not “prevent” or “negate” anything. It only limits the potential targets of a special ability. An Evil Character blocking Elizabeth Elisabeth could still use Net to capture a Hero other than Elizabeth Elisabeth. Note: If the special ability of a card includes the words “cannot” or “may not” WITHOUT the word “be”, then this is a type of prevent. For instance, if a card states that Heroes may not band, this is not a protect, but a prevent because of the lack of the word” be”. Heroes would be PREVENTED from banding.
It only refers to card-affecting abilities (capture, discard, band, etc.), not ability-affecting abilities (interrupt, prevent, and negate).
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In regards to Lydia, using older cards (that have a newer version(s) printed) as evidence on a wording argument isn't the smartest thing to be doing
The fact that the special ability was updated to reflect that it is a protect ability only adds to my argument.
It only refers to card-affecting abilities (capture, discard, band, etc.), not ability-affecting abilities (interrupt, prevent, and negate).
Sign of the Rainbow (http://www.redemptionreg.com/REG/signoftherainbow.htm) doesn't affect the last Evil Enhancement?
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In regards to Lydia, using older cards (that have a newer version(s) printed) as evidence on a wording argument isn't the smartest thing to be doing
The fact that the special ability was updated to reflect that it is a protect ability only adds to my argument.
I don't see how. Sure, "cannot be" is a protect ability, but that doesn't necessarily mean "CBI/P/N" are. Exceptions exist and could (conceivably) be used in this case. Weak, I know, but it's all I can think of :'(
It only refers to card-affecting abilities (capture, discard, band, etc.), not ability-affecting abilities (interrupt, prevent, and negate).
Sign of the Rainbow doesn't affect the last Evil Enhancement?
SotR has 2 effects: negate and discard. The negate affects the last evil enhancement's abilities, and the discard affects the card itself.
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that doesn't necessarily mean "CBI/P/N" are.
Actually, it does. The quote above clearly states when referring to cannot be, "This is a protect ability." It doesn't matter what you fill in after the "cannot be." Whatever you finish the sentence with is what is being protected from. Whether it be capture or negation, it is protecting from something.
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what difference does it make if cbn/i/p is a protect or not?
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what difference does it make if cbn/i/p is a protect or not?
My life depends on it.
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that doesn't necessarily mean "CBI/P/N" are.
Actually, it does. The quote above clearly states when referring to cannot be, "This is a protect ability." It doesn't matter what you fill in after the "cannot be." Whatever you finish the sentence with is what is being protected from. Whether it be capture or negation, it is protecting from something.
Except that the paragraph when you click on "cannot be", as I said earlier, only gives examples of "taken prisoner, discarded, removed from the game, captured, or converted...ignore or immune". It says nothing about interrupt, negate, or prevent (except at the end when it says "cannot" by itself is a prevent and not a protect, but I would argue that's a different kind of prevent).
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Sean, this quote from the new REG should answer your questions:
The phrases “cannot be” and “may not be” and “prevented from being” mean the same as “protected from.” (Note: “may not be” indicates a protect ability when it appears as its own phrase but not when it appears as part of a longer phrase such as “may not be blocked by.” “Cannot be negated,” “cannot be prevented,” and “cannot be interrupted” are similar to protect abilities but are not protect abilities. They each have their own special ability type defined elsewhere in this document.)
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Ooh, I was totally right but not searching the correct document for evidence (I was using the current REG) :P
*breathes a sigh of relief*
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I think this means I'm de...
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I think this means I'm de...
Do note that this REG is not official yet. However, it still is most likely correct.