Author Topic: satan's folly battle saver? (Read 1818 times)

LordZardeck · « **on:** April 02, 2012, 06:33:36 AM »

If i'm being discard, or losing by the numbers, can I play Satan's Folly to discard my opponent's ec and continue the ra? or do I return to my territory with my opponent scoring a successful block?

sk · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2012, 06:49:57 AM »

Since it doesn't say to withdraw, and since this isn't a healing card, you simply continue the battle.

Just to clarify, if being discarded by SA, you must interrupt the battle to play this card.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2012, 08:17:17 AM »

I thought you had to heal to get the discard?

Praeceps · « **Reply #3 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:01:47 AM »

I would rule that Folly is an instead ability rather than a heal in the same manner as Herod's Temple. SK is right in saying you would need an interrupt to get by a discarding ability though.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #4 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:15:33 AM »

Yeah I agree, it's an instead ability, the play-as is soooo outdated.

I'm sure about an interrupt being needed if one character is in battle.

I'm not sure about needing an interrupt if multiple characters are in battle, based on the wording of the card I would say you would not need an interrupt. But I'm not completely confident about saying that.

sk · « **Reply #5 on:** April 02, 2012, 10:33:12 AM »

The printed ability is an instead, but was previously a heal because instead wasn't yet a formalized ability. Since the play-as says 'heal', it's another of those "errata disguised as a play-as", and should be ignored.

I think you're right on multiple heroes, you simply need initiative.

Redoubter · « **Reply #6 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:00:32 AM »

Sorry to be the wet blanket, but I don't believe that this card works. Basically, you do have to interrupt the effect in order for this to be played, and it does not have an inherent interrupt.

However, if you do interrupt, you suddenly have a state where your character is not being discarded...and this card has no effect.

Without an errata, this card is useless

sk · « **Reply #7 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:48:35 AM »

1. You can be losing by the numbers and play it without an interrupt.
2. Once the interrupt completes and the discard happens, Folly instead the ability.

Redoubter · « **Reply #8 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:11:52 PM »

Quote from: sk on April 02, 2012, 11:48:35 AM

1. You can be losing by the numbers and play it without an interrupt.
2. Once the interrupt completes and the discard happens, Folly instead the ability.

1. No, you cannot. Being discarded by the numbers happens during battle resolution. You cannot play enhancements then.
2. Once you interrupt, there is no discard ability anymore. Folly has nothing to instead.

lp670sv · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:20:14 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 11:00:32 AM

Sorry to be the wet blanket, but I don't believe that this card works. Basically, you do have to interrupt the effect in order for this to be played, and it does not have an inherent interrupt.

However, if you do interrupt, you suddenly have a state where your character is not being discarded...and this card has no effect.

Without an errata, this card is useless

It's an instead abiility, you don't have to interrupt anything.

Redoubter · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:50:36 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on April 02, 2012, 12:20:14 PM

It's an instead abiility, you don't have to interrupt anything.

So now an enhancement with "instead" in it has an inherent interrupt-level effect? So I could play RBD as an enhancement during a block and force them to discard all the cards they just drew? No, I cannot.

lp670sv · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:55:29 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:50:36 PM

Quote from: lp670sv on April 02, 2012, 12:20:14 PM
It's an instead abiility, you don't have to interrupt anything.

So now an enhancement with "instead" in it has an inherent interrupt-level effect? So I could play RBD as an enhancement during a block and force them to discard all the cards they just drew? No, I cannot.

How exactly did you get inherent interrupt out of it doesn't need to interrupt? It's pretty simple logic. If a then b. If you are being discarded, then discard an EC instead. In your example based on putting words in my mouth no it wouldn't work because you aren't fulfilling the if a of the situation.

I said it doesn't need to interrupt. I did not say anything about an inherit interrupt. It doesn't have one, it doesn't need one.

Redoubter · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:59:13 PM »

Ok then, so that means that if I'm blocking I can play RBD as an enhancement in response to my opponent using a draw ability, and the cards would be discarded, right? That the exact same logic.

lp670sv · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2012, 01:03:41 PM »

I don't see why not since that is exactly what RBD is supposed to do, albeit if your using as an enhancement that;s inefficient.

Redoubter · « **Reply #14 on:** April 02, 2012, 01:06:56 PM »

Quote from: lp670sv on April 02, 2012, 01:03:41 PM

I don't see why not since that is exactly what RBD is supposed to do, albeit if your using as an enhancement that;s inefficient.

What does it matter what the intention of a card is as it pertains to a rule? That's never been the case.

Where are you getting this from, that you can just play an 'instead' card anytime you please? There's a difference for cards that are already on the table, but there are no rules to indicate that you can play an enhancement when you are not allowed by game rule, just so long as "instead" is in there.

You'll have to show me where you're getting this from, that completely changes the way enhancements are played and go against game rule.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2012, 03:50:03 PM »

I'm with lp here, I think it makes sense that you don't have to interrupt to do the instead, otherwise no instead ability would work.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2012, 03:57:17 PM »

It still works.

RA White blocked, they play Discard. I play Words then Folly. Discard reactivates and tries to Discard me, Folly insteads it. The execution of an instead ability is instant, but the trigger check is ongoing.

sk · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2012, 04:01:16 PM »

SF's instead trigger is ongoing. If played before any discarding happens, the instead is prepared to discard an EC instead.

If the discarding has already occurred by SA, you must interrupt to play SF, which has SF complete during the interrupt, then the interrupt completes, then the discard completes and gets instead'ed. Same with RBD.

If you are losing by the numbers, before battle resolution, you may play SF. Whether one is losing by the numbers is determined during an initiative check.

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:59:13 PM

Ok then, so that means that if I'm blocking I can play RBD as an enhancement in response to my opponent using a draw ability, and the cards would be discarded, right? That the exact same logic.

No. The draw ability has completed, so you must interrupt it to instead the draw, although RBD would instead future draws.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2012, 04:02:52 PM »

Other Instead abilities are active previous to the playing of the card. The Play As is wrong (it's not a healing card). Rather, the Play As should read:

"If your Hero is discarded, you may discard an Evil Character in opponent's territory instead."

So it is used as follows:

I attack with my favorite White Hero, Timothy [Apostles]. You block with the best EC in the game, Angry Mob. I play Satan's Folly. Now there is an ongoing ability that will instead any future discards. Because you remember that I have New Tongues in my hand and you really don't want Timothy to be able to gain access to your Female Only LS, especially if he makes a successful rescue later and gains 3/3, you play Christian Martyr. I smile and say: "Imma discard your Chief Captain Lysias in your territory instead."

However, in the same situation, if you play CM before I play Satan's Folly, I can't then play SF to instead the discard.

EDIT: Instaposted by sk and Pol. But my post is way cooler.

Redoubter · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2012, 04:17:40 PM »

I never disputed that it worked going forward, but look up at the first post, the original question. The question was if you could play Satan's Folly in response to a discard, which you cannot. That's the point I was arguing, not that instead doesn't work once it's already on the table.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2012, 04:19:18 PM »

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:11:52 PM

Quote from: sk on April 02, 2012, 11:48:35 AM
1. You can be losing by the numbers and play it without an interrupt.
2. Once the interrupt completes and the discard happens, Folly instead the ability.

1. No, you cannot. Being discarded by the numbers happens during battle resolution. You cannot play enhancements then.
2. Once you interrupt, there is no discard ability anymore. Folly has nothing to instead.

This is your errant post.

Redoubter · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2012, 09:09:45 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 02, 2012, 04:19:18 PM

This is your errant post.

Nope, you're right, I stated it wrong then. This is the problem with playing StarCraft while posting on here. Thanks for clearing up where I caused the confusion

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Author Topic: satan's folly battle saver? (Read 1818 times)